Episode 166: The Most Memorable Episodes of 2023

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Hello, everyone. On this episode of Church and Main, we will look at the 10 best episodes of 2023.

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Now, it's actually not the 10 best, it's the 10 most memorable.

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Yeah, we're going to go with that. The 10 most memorable episodes of 2023. That's coming up.

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Music.

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Hello and welcome to Church and Main, the podcast at the intersection of faith

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and modern life. I'm Dennis Sanders, your host. Happy Holidays!

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Or rating, and that helps others find the podcast.

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So for this episode, as I said earlier, I'm going to be reflecting on some of

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the interviews that I did in 2023 and also looking ahead to 2024.

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It so turns out that the episodes I have listed turn out to be 10.

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I won't call them the 10 best. They're actually kind of the 10 most memorable.

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Um, they were one, there are a lot of good interviews from, uh,

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2023, but these are the 10 that kind of stuck out, uh, for a lot of different reasons.

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And so I'm not going to be showing clips, but I will put the links to the episodes

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in the, um, uh, episode description.

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So, uh, do go there to find the links and, um, I would encourage you to listen

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to them. Um, I think that they are good.

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Um, yeah.

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I had hoped to do this earlier, but, you know, being a pastor makes it very hard.

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But also, it's also been kind of a challenging year.

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I'm kind of actually looking forward to 2023 ending and hoping for a better

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2024, as many of you might be aware of.

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Um, in the summer, uh, in July of this year, my mother, um, uh, had a stroke and, um,

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kind of they say that the first year of stroke recovery is a challenge and that's been the case.

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Case, um, mom was doing well and it's still kind of doing okay, but, um,

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had some falls in, in the, in the fall, um, in autumn and had to go back into

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the hospital and get some rehab and is out.

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Um, and, um, now though is dealing with not stroke related, but sciatica,

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but having the stroke doesn't help.

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Um, so that's not great.

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Um, but I do know that my mom has always been resilient.

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Um, she's been resilient through this whole thing. Um, she's been,

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um, resilient through all of the ups and downs and we got to celebrate her turning

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90, um, on the 15th of this month.

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So, um, I'm hoping that it is 2024 is a better year for her.

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Um, I'm hoping that, you know, things will kind of stabilize.

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I hope it's a better year for myself and my husband, my husband,

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Daniel, um, who has been a saint and an incredible helper through all of this.

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Um, just hope that things kind of.

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Stabilize. So, um, I guess this is kind of one of those things that I do ask

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for prayers and I hope that that 2024 will be a bit of a better year for all of us.

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So, um, as I said earlier, you know, I did want to try to do a,

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the recorded episode earlier.

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Um, you know, things got a little little busy with taking care of mom and getting

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the church ready during Advent.

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Um, and I was able to actually to write out this episode. Um,

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so there's a link to it if you'd like to read it.

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Um, but I decided I was going to try to do this, um, just to get it posted before

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the end of the year for people to look at and, and look back at 2023.

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So these are the episodes. They are not in any kind of order.

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No, the first one here is not number 10 or number one.

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These are just the 10 that are the most memorable.

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So the first one I want to share was an episode I did in February of this year.

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I interviewed Ben Crosby.

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Ben is an Episcopal priest. He is studying at at McGill University in Montreal.

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And I happened to stumble upon a substack, his substack.

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And what he said was just kind of, I don't know, it was fascinating. It was refreshing.

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He was saying, I think, what some of us have been feeling for a long time and

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a lot of the frustrations that we deal with in mainline Protestantism.

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He shared about how it seems so common for leaders in mainline Protestant denominations

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to basically be in denial of the ongoing decline in their midst.

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We get a lot of happy talk about how, quote unquote, how God is doing a new thing.

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Never mind that, you know, churches are closing left and right and our denominations

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are shrinking steadily.

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And so his interview, his substat and his interview were words of assurance

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because it kind of helped me to realize I was not going crazy.

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I think there are a lot of people out there these days that really do nothing

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but make fun of the mainline and its decline.

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Or they kind of just shake their head about the sad state of this tradition.

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But Ben's essay and then his interview show that there are some people that really do care.

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They really do want to see something change.

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And I was so glad to have the chance to talk to him.

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And I hope to do so again. I know that he is very busy in his work and his schooling.

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But I hope to have him back. And I was thankful for his voice,

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that he's willing to kind of speak up and say what needs to be said.

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Um, at a time when so many others really don't want to face facts.

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Um, these next few, these next four actually are kind of all related.

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Um, 2023, as I said, is, you know, it's, it's another year of mainline Protestant

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denominations shrinking. drinking.

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Um, but among these four people that I interviewed that, what they reminded

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me is that there is still vibrancy in this tradition. There is still hope.

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So, one of the first that I talked to was back in March, and I chatted with Dawn Darwin Weeks.

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She is an ordained pastor in the Christian Church Disciples of Christ,

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which is my denomination.

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She is one of the pastors, along with her husband, of Connection Christian Church in Odessa, Texas.

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Connection actually started as First Christian Odessa, but they sold their building,

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they moved, and they also got a new name.

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And Dawn talked about the journey, which was summed up in her book,

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which came out earlier this year, called Breakthrough.

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And after really this past year hearing about so many churches in our denomination

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closing, it was good to hear the story of a church that is being renewed.

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And it's being renewed by listening to the Spirit. So, definitely give a listen

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to that episode with Don Darwin Weeks.

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And then in October, I had the opportunity to chat with Graham Bocot.

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He is a priest in the Anglican Church of Canada.

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His story is fascinating. I read his story.

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Actually, his story and Ben Crosby's are somewhat similar because I think I

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read something about him or related to him either in Ben's substack,

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which then led me to the Anglican Journal,

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which is the kind of the magazine for the Anglican Church of Canada talking about Graham's story.

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And his story was that he was able to help bring back a closed congregation,

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a congregation that had been, as they in kind of Anglican speak,

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was deconsecrated back in 2008.

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And through conversations in a town in rural Ontario.

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Um, he talks about and tells a story about how he, working with a group of people,

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a group of people he describes as six miserable Anglicans, they were able to

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revive this congregation and

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not just revive it to make it a thriving congregation that has an impact,

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that has made an impact on its rural Ontario community.

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So, Graham is showing that churches actually can get second acts if they're

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willing to put their trust in God and to see where God is going to lead.

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The next episode is one where, it's funny, I did an interview this week that

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will be coming out probably next week.

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It's the first interview for the new year.

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Where the person that I was interviewing was talking about the fact,

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who was also a Disciples of Christ pastor,

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that a lot of the churches in the area where he lives were started by lay people.

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They weren't started by pastors.

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And I think that that was true where I live here, and I think that that has

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been true in a lot of cases, that lay people started churches.

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Now, these days, it's a lot more common to see churches that are started by pastors.

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But even though that is now more the norm these days, there are still examples

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of laity out there that are starting new communities of faith,

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and I happen to know one of those people.

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I had an interview back in, I believe it was in September, with Laura Coddington.

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She is a Methodist lay minister of St.

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Michael Community Church in St. Michael, Minnesota.

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St. Michael is an exurb, maybe about 25 miles from, 25, 30 miles from Minneapolis.

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Minneapolis, and she tells about how she and her husband Brent have started

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this community and have become a visible presence in the St. Michael community.

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And it's just a wonderful reminder that you don't need to be a pastor,

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you don't need to have necessarily an MDiv to plant a church.

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What you do need, really, is a heart for mission.

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And so, yeah, listen to, especially if you're a lay person, but you've always

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had maybe a fascination of helping to plant a church, listen to that interview.

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I think that you will enjoy it.

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So the last interview that I did for 2023 was with Paul Moore.

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He is a colleague. I've known him now for over 15 years.

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He is a Presbyterian pastor. He is a pastor that is passionate about local church ministry.

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He was able to kind of turn around a church in southeastern Minnesota.

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Um, and he has also now been a pastor for almost 15 years of a new church plant

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of the Presbyterian Church USA in, um, Blaine, Minnesota,

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which is another suburb of the Twin Cities.

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Um in his interview we talked about his home congregation in worthington minnesota

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which is in the southwestern part of minnesota and how um that church has shrunk

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in size it's actually selling their building and moving into a smaller space,

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but that started him to think a lot about the fact that how many churches in

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the proletarian church are closing and why it doesn't seem like anything is

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happening within that denomination to kind of stem to decline.

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But he's been doing some thinking about it.

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One of the things that he started to do in his own congregation is to,

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what he says, grow young.

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After a lot of kind of a year of discernment, his congregation is hiring a youth

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and family minister as close to full-time as possible,

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because they want to make a commitment really to grow the next generation of Christians.

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I think, you know, all of these pastors that I've just talked about,

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they all have an interest and feel a passion for kind of the local church,

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and that the church still matters.

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I sometimes worry that, especially in mainline churches, we are kind of starting

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to think that churches don't matter.

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I mean, I've even heard sometimes the word colonialism being used with churches.

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And I think that the gathered community still matters in some way.

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Um, and so it, there is something important to hear how, uh,

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people are still trying to find ways of creating,

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um, visible communities of faith,

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um, in this day and age and see that there is still a role for that.

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So, um, the next one here is probably an issue that is obviously pretty personal for me. Um,

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As an African-American, I still think that the issue of race is still something that's important.

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I'm not someone that focuses solely on race. I'm not someone that really holds

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on tightly to race in ways I think sometimes are not great.

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But I still think it's an important issue to talk about. But maybe if you've

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noticed on this podcast, I haven't really talked about race a whole lot.

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And I think the problem is that I haven't because, well, I've been hesitant.

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Maybe partially, it could be cowardice.

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I think part of it is because the dominant way that we look at things,

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especially in mainline Protestantism, is through anti-racism.

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And that way of looking at racism or a race doesn't always, I don't always agree with it,

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but on the other side of that, I don't feel comfortable with those that try

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to downplay or even ignore race.

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I think race is something that's still an important issue,

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but I feel like the way that we talk about it now is so different and sometimes

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feels like Like it's caught up in identity, but not in a shared humanity.

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I think that's what I want to get at. So I think I was thankful that I got the

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chance to talk to George Yancey about his approach.

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He is an African-American sociologist. And we talked about what he believes

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is a third approach, mutual accountability. ability.

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Now we don't live in an era like Jim Crow. Um, I'm not one of these people that

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thinks that we have not made any progress.

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I can tell you we've made progress. Um.

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My dad, back 70 years ago, when he would travel between Michigan and his home

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in Louisiana, he couldn't stay in a hotel.

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That is not the case for me. I can stay in a hotel.

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But there are still issues. We still have to deal with them. The question is how.

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We have come a long way as a nation when it comes to race, but of course we still have ways to go.

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And I think that George Yancey's conversation is a good one.

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Um he's also written a book about

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it which of course right now is uh fails me

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but um i do hope um i do hope that you give it a listen i think if you have

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not heard this third approach it might be one that you may want to consider

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i really hope that in 2024 i can bring on some Some other thinkers that aren't basically just,

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you know, kind of in either just the anti-racist or the color,

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quote unquote, colorblind camp.

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But people who really kind of are like are like Georgiancy that want to kind

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of think about this a little bit deeper or at least in ways that are not kind of the dominant ways.

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So please give this episode a listen. Um, I think that, um, it's one that I

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think we need to, to listen to.

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So this next story is one that is important is also with such a comedy of errors.

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Um, this one was with, uh, Seth Perry.

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Seth Perry is, um, uh, a Lutheran pastor, uh,

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north of the twin cities in a small town and over kind of as we weren't coming

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into lent he decided to do a series of videos um.

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Where he basically was called Giving Up the Stigma. And the stigma here was mental illness.

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Seth is someone who has bipolar disorder,

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and he wanted to, quote-unquote, come out and be honest about how he deals with mental illness.

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And in his interview, he shared his story, story, um, which was a pretty,

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um, riveting story, important one to hear.

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I think one of the things that I remember the most from that is that he has

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noticed how pastor, how churches can understand pastors who struggle with addiction.

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Um, but when it comes to pastors dealing with mental illness,

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that's kind of a whole different kettle of fish.

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And so he wanted to be honest about that. And I And I think being honest has

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led others to be honest about their own issues with mental illness.

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The comedy of error is part of this is that I was doing this.

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I had to basically do this interview three times.

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I had recording issues. There was a I was using a recording service that was just not that good.

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And basically, um, I either lost part of the interview or I lost, um, part of the sound.

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So, um, basically the interview kind of had to, I, you know,

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tried to save it and it just was not, not salvageable.

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And so it took about three times to get this done.

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Uh, but Seth was incredibly patient. Um, and, um, I found this was a great interview,

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um, even though it, it was, it was such a bitch to get it, um,

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excuse my French to get it out there.

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But, um, I think that if you are someone that is dealing with a mental illness,

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um, especially if you're clergy,

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um, this is something, one that you should listen to because it shows that you

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aren't alone, that there are other people who are dealing with this.

00:21:52.913 --> 00:21:57.473
Um, and I think Seth is a great example that, um,

00:21:57.713 --> 00:22:06.533
you can live, can live up to your call, um, and be honest about what,

00:22:06.593 --> 00:22:08.073
who you are and what you're dealing with.

00:22:08.233 --> 00:22:12.713
Um, so, uh, please give that, that episode a good listen.

00:22:14.173 --> 00:22:21.553
So I have a few more here. This one was probably the one I was most excited

00:22:21.553 --> 00:22:26.713
about. Um, the reason I was most excited about was because, um.

00:22:29.784 --> 00:22:32.964
Book that this is based off of basically blew my mind.

00:22:33.704 --> 00:22:39.644
Um, last year I started reading, um, church in the crisis of decline by Andrew Root.

00:22:39.764 --> 00:22:45.884
Um, there are not, you know, there are lots of books out there that are talking

00:22:45.884 --> 00:22:49.564
about church and church decline and church congregational renewal,

00:22:49.684 --> 00:22:52.064
and they're all interesting and fascinating.

00:22:52.524 --> 00:22:56.524
And I read, started reading this one, um, last year.

00:22:56.524 --> 00:22:59.464
Um i think i started reading it um

00:22:59.464 --> 00:23:02.324
partially on a on a trip

00:23:02.324 --> 00:23:10.964
uh to norway and i mean it basically blew my mind um it made me look at our

00:23:10.964 --> 00:23:15.804
the faith differently it made me look at how we look at faith and in our culture

00:23:15.804 --> 00:23:22.064
differently um it's so just kind of,

00:23:23.004 --> 00:23:25.144
of, well, as I said, blew my mind.

00:23:25.144 --> 00:23:27.584
I just had to try to get Andrew on the show.

00:23:27.884 --> 00:23:34.384
Um, I have interviewed his wife, uh, Cara, uh, who I, who I've known for a long time.

00:23:34.964 --> 00:23:41.164
And, um, I was happy we finally got to do so. Um, we had a great conversation on, on that book.

00:23:41.464 --> 00:23:46.124
Um, and I would like to have him back. I hope to have him back next year.

00:23:46.584 --> 00:23:51.084
Um, he is actually also just a delightful person to talk to.

00:23:51.584 --> 00:23:57.144
Not that people who I've interviewed are terrible people, but you just feel at ease.

00:23:58.704 --> 00:24:04.424
Especially for someone that is, some people would say, very well known as a theologian out there.

00:24:05.004 --> 00:24:10.664
He's just kind of down to earth. And I really enjoyed the episode.

00:24:10.964 --> 00:24:16.364
And I think especially if people are kind of struggling, their church is struggling

00:24:16.364 --> 00:24:22.204
and wondering what to do next, I would definitely read Church in the Crisis Decline.

00:24:22.744 --> 00:24:28.464
This is actually one in a series of books. There are actually, I think, six books.

00:24:29.564 --> 00:24:31.924
The most recent one came out this fall.

00:24:33.924 --> 00:24:41.004
But do listen to this episode because I think that if you... And then read the book.

00:24:41.524 --> 00:24:47.304
And when you do that, I don't think that you will look at that congregational

00:24:47.304 --> 00:24:49.584
renewal the same way again.

00:24:50.904 --> 00:24:57.564
So the last two episodes that I want to share, both deal with October 7th and

00:24:57.564 --> 00:25:02.444
the massacre, and basically the massacre of Israelis by Hamas terrorists.

00:25:03.584 --> 00:25:08.244
So the first one is that I, kind of the background, is that I wanted to talk

00:25:08.244 --> 00:25:11.704
to a rabbi, really, about...

00:25:13.311 --> 00:25:19.351
What happened on October 7th. And so I talked to David Watson,

00:25:19.551 --> 00:25:26.391
who is a Methodist pastor and theologian, and he shared the name Brad Hirschfeld.

00:25:26.851 --> 00:25:30.851
And so I got to talk to Rabbi Brad in late October.

00:25:31.131 --> 00:25:35.971
So this was just a few weeks after the massacre.

00:25:36.251 --> 00:25:44.331
And what was fascinating about this was how how he talked about it in the context of hope.

00:25:45.851 --> 00:25:54.911
And that's a hard thing to see if you've heard some of the stories of what happened on October 7th.

00:25:55.951 --> 00:25:57.251
But there is hope.

00:25:58.371 --> 00:26:03.311
That's not ignoring what happened. And he definitely did not ignore what happened.

00:26:06.331 --> 00:26:12.711
But I think that there was something meaningful about this episode and seeing

00:26:12.711 --> 00:26:14.231
where hope could come from.

00:26:15.791 --> 00:26:22.231
And I think, as I said, I've written, I think Rabbi Brad just kind of exuded joy.

00:26:23.091 --> 00:26:26.991
And I think he really embodied what joy is about. That, you know,

00:26:26.991 --> 00:26:29.551
happiness is kind of that state when things are going right.

00:26:30.231 --> 00:26:36.831
Joy is something a little bit deeper and it's not the same as happiness.

00:26:38.831 --> 00:26:44.831
Joy is not necessarily that you're happy, but there's something deeper there.

00:26:45.051 --> 00:26:51.131
And I think he showed that and how you can have that sense of joy and hope even

00:26:51.131 --> 00:26:52.771
in the midst of such evil.

00:26:52.891 --> 00:26:57.431
And in fact, that you need to have that in the midst of such evil,

00:26:57.511 --> 00:27:00.991
that Hamas did not steal his hope.

00:27:01.131 --> 00:27:04.551
And that's important to hear.

00:27:04.551 --> 00:27:12.131
So I hope, um, listen to the episode with Rabbi Brad and then related to that

00:27:12.131 --> 00:27:15.951
episode was one that I did with, um,

00:27:16.171 --> 00:27:21.031
in November with Todd, uh, Stavrakos. He is a Presbyterian pastor.

00:27:21.411 --> 00:27:29.891
Um, he has been for years, um, a part of, um, Presbyterians for Middle East peace.

00:27:30.771 --> 00:27:35.771
And we talked really about, this was kind of and I even shared it in the episode,

00:27:35.971 --> 00:27:40.531
an experience I had at the General Assembly of the Christian Church Disciples of Christ,

00:27:41.111 --> 00:27:45.071
we have a lot of different non-binding resolutions that come up and one of them

00:27:45.071 --> 00:27:52.951
that came up was one that called for Israel to be deemed an apartheid state and I,

00:27:54.071 --> 00:27:57.271
disagreed with that. I don't.

00:27:59.115 --> 00:28:02.855
I guess I'm kind of an old-fashioned, I believe in a two-state solution.

00:28:03.375 --> 00:28:05.355
I don't think that Israel is innocent.

00:28:06.615 --> 00:28:09.655
I don't think that the Palestinians are innocent.

00:28:10.175 --> 00:28:19.415
I think both have a right to live and to have places that they can call home.

00:28:20.715 --> 00:28:29.195
And so I think calling Israel an apartheid state just didn't ring,

00:28:29.355 --> 00:28:31.675
just didn't smell right to me.

00:28:31.735 --> 00:28:34.835
It felt wrong in many ways.

00:28:35.035 --> 00:28:40.875
And I was curious and I noticed that that was kind of the line of thinking of

00:28:40.875 --> 00:28:45.635
a lot of people within mainline Protestant churches that was very much came

00:28:45.635 --> 00:28:49.335
down on one side. And that one side, of course, was the Palestinian side.

00:28:49.555 --> 00:28:57.055
Instead of seeing both sides, I know, both sides-ism, but really to see the

00:28:57.055 --> 00:29:01.695
validity of both the arguments on both sides, that it wasn't all one person

00:29:01.695 --> 00:29:03.675
good and all one person bad.

00:29:03.675 --> 00:29:06.635
And so I was just wondering why

00:29:06.635 --> 00:29:09.615
is that the case and so I tried to

00:29:09.615 --> 00:29:13.075
chat it with Todd and we talked about really

00:29:13.075 --> 00:29:16.075
the history especially of mainline churches but especially the Presbyterian

00:29:16.075 --> 00:29:21.835
Church USA and their kind of bias against Israel and how that what the effects

00:29:21.835 --> 00:29:29.315
of that are especially with Jews the Jewish community here in America I think

00:29:29.315 --> 00:29:31.235
it's a timely episode and.

00:29:33.557 --> 00:29:38.337
And when did I think that we need to kind of talk about? Because I don't think that it's helpful.

00:29:41.017 --> 00:29:46.437
And I think we might be doing a lot of harm with Jewish communities.

00:29:46.617 --> 00:29:54.777
And that we have to find ways of honoring and being with and listening to Palestinians,

00:29:55.197 --> 00:29:58.317
especially Palestinian Christians, but Palestinians in general.

00:29:58.317 --> 00:30:06.637
But not at the expense that we don't respect Jews and Israelis.

00:30:08.777 --> 00:30:14.817
And that's all, you know, not easy, but I think that that's important.

00:30:15.597 --> 00:30:17.857
So those are kind of the 10 episodes.

00:30:18.837 --> 00:30:24.677
And again, they are not, you know, this is not a countdown of the 10 best episodes

00:30:24.677 --> 00:30:28.137
of 2023. It's just kind of the 10 that are the most memorable.

00:30:29.857 --> 00:30:35.217
And there were a lot of other great episodes that I enjoyed,

00:30:35.497 --> 00:30:37.277
but these were the ones that were most memorable.

00:30:38.297 --> 00:30:39.837
So what comes in 2024?

00:30:41.497 --> 00:30:45.677
I still want to do, I'm hopefully going to want to do more episodes on pockets

00:30:45.677 --> 00:30:50.277
of growth within mainline Protestant churches and denominations.

00:30:51.177 --> 00:30:58.537
I definitely because it's it's an election year um want to do something on religion

00:30:58.537 --> 00:31:05.077
and the election and how do christians respond especially in light of some of the things that um,

00:31:05.857 --> 00:31:11.137
donald trump is saying as he is running for president yet again um.

00:31:13.086 --> 00:31:18.546
I want to do an episode at some point in 2024 on the working class and the church.

00:31:20.046 --> 00:31:23.786
I just have not found anyone that I could talk to about it.

00:31:23.906 --> 00:31:27.486
But I think that it's an important issue because it actually does relate to

00:31:27.486 --> 00:31:29.566
the whole Donald Trump issue.

00:31:31.006 --> 00:31:38.846
I think how the political parties have kind of ignored the working class feeds

00:31:38.846 --> 00:31:43.746
into kind of Donald Trump's rise. And I know that's controversial.

00:31:43.986 --> 00:31:46.566
Some people don't believe that, but I think it does have a role.

00:31:48.466 --> 00:31:56.026
I'm also interested in talking about Canada's medical assistance in dying law

00:31:56.026 --> 00:31:59.786
or MAID law that allows for assisted death.

00:32:00.466 --> 00:32:07.026
Ben Crosby actually has talked about this issue, having lived in Canada,

00:32:07.286 --> 00:32:14.106
and has some interesting things about how the church really has kind of not spoken up on it.

00:32:14.526 --> 00:32:17.306
And so what should the church be saying about this?

00:32:19.446 --> 00:32:22.466
And what is the church in Canada saying or not saying?

00:32:24.946 --> 00:32:31.266
It's kind of an important issue. I think, you know, we have here in the United States laws, um,

00:32:31.526 --> 00:32:37.726
like, uh, basically assisted suicide laws, mostly on, I think on the West coast,

00:32:37.786 --> 00:32:39.326
I think Washington state, Oregon,

00:32:39.526 --> 00:32:44.466
uh, California, but they're not used, um, in the way and they're set up very

00:32:44.466 --> 00:32:48.806
differently, um, than Canada's law, uh, Canada's.

00:32:50.824 --> 00:32:54.764
If I could be so blunt, doesn't it have as many safeguards?

00:32:55.704 --> 00:32:59.044
And so there have been a lot more people using that law.

00:33:00.484 --> 00:33:07.384
They're set to actually expand the law early next year for people with mental illness.

00:33:09.224 --> 00:33:15.184
So you have people with post-traumatic stress disorder that are hoping to be able to have this done.

00:33:15.804 --> 00:33:19.304
So it just raises a lot of questions. When is this?

00:33:19.324 --> 00:33:26.844
Is there any time that, you know, assisted suicide or euthanasia can be used?

00:33:27.124 --> 00:33:29.084
If so, when? What are the limits?

00:33:31.164 --> 00:33:35.464
What does that mean for Christians? I think that these are questions that we

00:33:35.464 --> 00:33:39.904
need to be asking because we're seeing it across the border. murder.

00:33:40.624 --> 00:33:44.424
Um, I don't know if that's going to change anything here, but it's something

00:33:44.424 --> 00:33:46.564
that we need to look about to talk about.

00:33:47.384 --> 00:33:53.084
Um, I'd also at some point like to talk more with someone about abortion,

00:33:53.184 --> 00:34:01.944
but beyond just kind of the, not just the pro pro-choice pro-life kind of argument that we

00:34:02.384 --> 00:34:06.724
usually have, but maybe a little bit deeper about some of the grays.

00:34:06.964 --> 00:34:12.964
Um, I think that there was an an interesting episode of the Dispatch podcast,

00:34:13.184 --> 00:34:18.004
if you have listened to it, where Sarah Isger, who is one of the hosts,

00:34:18.904 --> 00:34:20.364
had a very impassioned conversation.

00:34:21.124 --> 00:34:24.044
She is pro-life, but talking about

00:34:24.044 --> 00:34:30.064
some of the things we're having with Texas law and the recent Texas case with

00:34:30.064 --> 00:34:38.824
a woman that probably needed to have an abortion because of the child had a

00:34:38.824 --> 00:34:43.604
disease that basically was going to be fatal and could have some issues for her.

00:34:44.624 --> 00:34:47.644
And so there was just a lot of impassioned conversation about,

00:34:47.744 --> 00:34:51.364
you know, how is this going to hurt and affect women?

00:34:51.444 --> 00:34:56.184
And you don't have to be a super pro-choice person to have some concerns about

00:34:56.184 --> 00:34:59.324
this. And I would love to kind of talk about this from a faith standpoint.

00:35:00.684 --> 00:35:03.004
So those are some of the things that I'd like to talk about,

00:35:03.004 --> 00:35:05.984
uh, comment come 2024. Um.

00:35:08.793 --> 00:35:16.233
That's 2024. Um, as we kind of close out the year, I do want to say thanks to

00:35:16.233 --> 00:35:21.513
everyone who has listened to the podcast, who's shared an episode with someone.

00:35:21.913 --> 00:35:28.153
Um, and I do also want to say thank you, um, to those who have donated.

00:35:28.273 --> 00:35:32.353
Um, there are a few of you have actually, um, sent a donation.

00:35:32.433 --> 00:35:37.453
I have put things out there, but I don't have, you know, push it really hard.

00:35:37.513 --> 00:35:38.913
At least I haven't this year.

00:35:39.013 --> 00:35:43.613
And, um, I've just been busy this year to try to do that.

00:35:43.773 --> 00:35:48.393
Um, but I do want to just say, thank you for those that donate. It means a lot. It helps.

00:35:48.673 --> 00:35:55.053
Um, and it just is cool to have all these people around who have supported,

00:35:55.133 --> 00:35:58.213
um, this crazy dream of mine of starting a podcast.

00:35:58.973 --> 00:36:06.313
Um, especially how I started it, which is usual for me, at least to kind of

00:36:06.313 --> 00:36:08.893
start things that, and to see what sticks.

00:36:09.293 --> 00:36:15.113
So thank you. And I definitely will look forward to seeing you all in 2024.

00:36:17.873 --> 00:36:20.933
That is it for this episode of Church in Maine.

00:36:21.813 --> 00:36:28.693
Again, all of the links for the episode, for the 10 most memorable episodes

00:36:28.693 --> 00:36:32.153
of 2023 will be in the show notes.

00:36:32.233 --> 00:36:36.773
So please, you can find them there and then just listen to those episodes and

00:36:36.773 --> 00:36:40.693
feel free to share them with as many people as you can.

00:36:42.373 --> 00:36:46.313
Just remember to rate and review this episode on your favorite podcast app so

00:36:46.313 --> 00:36:52.013
that others can find the podcast and consider donating so that we can continue

00:36:52.013 --> 00:36:53.353
to produce more episodes.

00:36:54.033 --> 00:36:58.313
And again, that's it for this episode of Church and Main, the last one in 2023.

00:36:58.813 --> 00:37:00.473
I'm Dennis Sanders, your host.

00:37:01.253 --> 00:37:04.433
Again, thank you so much for listening throughout all of 2023.

00:37:04.433 --> 00:37:06.693
I look forward to seeing you in 2024.

00:37:07.393 --> 00:37:11.513
Take care, Godspeed, and I'll see you very soon.

00:37:12.560 --> 00:37:47.951
Music.