Debate Fallout and Politics as Salvation | Episode 189

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to Church and Main, a podcast interested in the intersection of faith in our modern world. Dennis Sanders, your host. As I like to always say, if you're someone that kind of looks at the days news in one hand

[00:00:56] and the Bible and another, this is the podcast for you. So this is actually a solo podcast and I didn't know if I was actually going to do it or not, but it even though there was a need to do it.

[00:01:15] And what I'm going to say, I don't even know if it makes much sense. This is a podcast kind of talking about the Fallout from the first presidential debate between President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump.

[00:01:32] And a kind of will be talking about the debate itself, but really about how we view politics and especially how we view the candidates. So hopefully this will make some sense if not, you will let me know.

[00:01:59] So Thursday evening I came downstairs after watching that presidential debate and I have Joe to my husband. He was born in Canada. He doesn't have Canadian citizenship, but as I had to joke with him by saying so, have you finished your citizen application yet for Canada?

[00:02:26] That was my way of kind of signaling that this was not good news for Joe Biden. And let's be honest, that debate was horrible. Biden looked confused. He seemed to really show some cognitive decline that has put Democrats into a panic.

[00:02:48] There have been a lot of calls to replace Biden on the ticket. It's interesting that just as quickly the Biden campaign, as well as members of the Biden family, were trying to make sure that Democrats fell into line.

[00:03:09] My guess is really that Biden's going to stand a ticket. The campaign is just going to look forward to the Democratic Convention in Chicago and August. Continue limping on to the general election in November.

[00:03:27] And I think that they're just going to kind of hope that something will happen that Biden will win a second term. And this is all made me wonder how Christians should look at all of this.

[00:03:41] And as I said, I don't think I'm going to speak directly like there's a Christian view of looking out the debates. But I am interested in how we perceive politics in America. We have become such a kind of tribal nation.

[00:04:04] And especially in the Trump years, I've just noticed that even more where we just have come far more partisan, far more divided in a way that we just don't see the other side as anything but dangerous. Yesterday I was preaching my sermon.

[00:04:31] I used a phrase that has been you've probably heard more often than not. Jesus is Lord and Caesar is not. And I was talking about the dangers of looking to politics as a religion, which is something I think we have definitely done in our society.

[00:04:49] Especially I would say in the last decade or so. Now I need to preface this by saying that politics is something that I have followed since I was a kid. And I really like it.

[00:05:03] I've always been fascinated by the working and working of our government, how they how it functions I'm also very concerned about the nature of our government today and the nature of our democratic heritage.

[00:05:20] Now it's an African-American who had relatives who grew up in the Jim Crow South, who were unable to vote. I believe that political participation matters. What has bothered me though in recent years is how politics has become less of a civic

[00:05:41] duty. It's something that we do as Americans and it's become more of a holy exercise. It's not like we're anymore just electing someone who's going to lead our nation for a few years. It feels like we're trying to elect a high priest that's going to lead

[00:06:03] kind of charge a lead, a crusade against our enemies. Getting back to Biden I think that his debate performance really puts his fitness for office and an extreme doubt. Now in some ways this is in a new revelation. I mean people have had concerns about Biden for

[00:06:25] quite some time. And what's maddening is that all the while we've been told that Biden was fit as a fiddle even though there were reports that came out every so often about Biden's limited

[00:06:40] schedule about his being kept away from the media and being limited to scripted events about the fact that he sometimes wandered in his thoughts and everything. And all of this Biden has stayed on the ticket. Part of that is because Biden wants to be on the

[00:07:00] ticket. But I also think part of it especially among Democrats is fear. Democrats have talked themselves into thinking that Biden is their only hope in keeping the presidency from Trump. And so instead of I think doing what should be the honest thing

[00:07:20] to tell Joe Biden that he needs to step down before he makes complete fool of himself. I think a lot of people have basically circled the wagons and basically telling people that they have to support Biden or else he is going to be disaster.

[00:07:44] There isn't another choice. Now in some ways I think that to me at least this is very familiar because this is the same logic that has ruled Republicans ever since Donald Trump came down

[00:08:01] at escalator in 2015. He has seen this the man is going to keep dangerous progressive forces at Bay and he's going to save America, make America great again. And you know who cares that he's

[00:08:15] morally challenged? Who cares that he lies with ease? The the the line of thinking is that if we don't support Trump it will be Biden and communism will win and it'll be dry queens all the way down.

[00:08:36] Biden I think has shown that it wasn't just Republicans that have been governed by a sense of fear but Democrats as well. And everyone believes that we have to now told the line.

[00:08:55] Never mind that the Biden campaign in many ways has lied to us everything that was fine when it wasn't and that there was no one that was willing to tell the president the hard truth that he may need to consider stepping down. No one can tell him

[00:09:18] and in fact no one can tell President Trump either. The hard truth we both look to them as the kind of would be saviors of the nations. Instead of what they should be viewed as servants.

[00:09:35] Sermons who are do heed the call to public service but when they realize they can't do it anymore that they're willing to listen and step down. In my sermon yesterday I preached from acts

[00:09:50] chapter four we're doing a series in the book of Acts and this is a chapter or Peter and John find themselves in front of the ruling council of religious leaders. They had healed a man who

[00:10:03] couldn't walk and then preached about Jesus and that got them bothered. Now these were actually the same people who had charged Jesus and helped put Jesus to death with Roman help. And so they're

[00:10:19] mad and they don't want him, want Peter and John muscling in on their actions and they're afraid that they will mess up all the things that they have kind of put together because the fact

[00:10:32] the matter is that the reason that they are able to rule is because they were in a cozy relationship with me. This was a way to establish peace and keep themselves in power. Those religious leaders were

[00:10:51] enmeshed in the political power structure of the day. And of course that compromised them. I don't think the things have changed much. Christians today are also listening to the sirens on the politics and they are getting wrapped up in the political power structures of our day.

[00:11:13] Now we say that a lot especially as someone like me who is a never-trumper looking really at the compromises that Evan Jellicles had made when it comes to Donald Trump and they have made a lot of

[00:11:28] compromises. But they're not the only ones. Progressives are people on the left to make those compromises as well. And I think on both sides we do it sometimes for good intentions.

[00:11:48] But the problem is that as people of faith we have to be careful, we have to be careful to not let politics become the be all and then the all of everything. But the problem is that

[00:11:59] it becomes it kind of enraps us, it kind of grabs us and takes hold of us. And so that instead of helping our faith guide us into picking good and moral leaders to govern us we start to see ourselves as

[00:12:18] electing high priests that are going to go against our enemies. A few weeks ago I had on the podcast Josh Gritter he's a vegetarian pastor. And one of the things that he has said, and this is what

[00:12:37] he said actually in article in Presbyterian Outlook, it's how we see politics as salvation. He says, quote, politics has promised to free us from our problems, whether it's the more progressive social paradigm that the left or the more individually heroic paradigm of the right, politics

[00:12:59] have become a mechanism for salvation. But of course, politics doesn't save. Politics never save. Jesus does. The humans, Christians are humans and it's hard and I think we're just so tempted by that pool to believe that our leaders can bring salvation that they can bring morality or bring

[00:13:26] healing to our planet or whatever. And I think that's why at the end of the day I think that Biden is going to stay on its nomadly because people believe he's going to save us from democracy.

[00:13:39] Which is very similar to those who think that Trump is going to save us from communism or whatever. Jesus's Lord and Caesar is not. The funny thing is that if we believe that state

[00:13:55] business true, and I do believe it is true, if we believe that Jesus really is the Lord of everything in our lives, and I think what it means in this context, it doesn't mean that we shouldn't

[00:14:06] have be involved in politics, but it should be the man better of our leaders, of all our leaders, even those that we agree with. We shouldn't overlook the moral behavior of a nominee for president who slept with a porn star when his wife was pregnant.

[00:14:25] And we don't overlook a president that has significant cognitive decline. We don't view our political leaders as gods. We don't just get along to play along on that matter, either. We have to view our leaders as what they truly are human and demand better from them

[00:14:49] and not see them as gods that we worship. That said, I really don't expect it anything it's going to change because, frankly, as of the last few years, nothing has changed. Republicans never dumped Trump with his many problems. So why do we think that Democrats are

[00:15:08] going to do that with Biden? I'd like to hope that they would, but I don't expect it. As I've said, both sides see their guy as savior and therefore they are untouchable.

[00:15:22] As I finished up my sermon on Sunday, I said that on November 10th, which is the last Sunday, which is the first Sunday after the general election, I'm going to be preaching, I won't

[00:15:37] know exactly what I'm going to be preaching on. But I do think that no matter who wins, no matter what happens, my plan has to preach about the good news of Jesus Christ,

[00:15:50] who is truly our king and our Lord. Now, I just need that I don't care about who wins. But I'm just wanting to rather put things in their proper place to know that as a Christian,

[00:16:10] whether it's Biden or Trump, they are just Caesar's. They are not Lord. I wish that all of us would stop treating them that way. Well, friends, that is what my thoughts are on this matter.

[00:16:32] Like I said, it's not directly about the debate, but it's kind of where I'm worried that we are kind of the outgrowth of where some of this is coming from. So, I'd love to know what you think.

[00:16:51] I'd love to know how you're thinking about all of this. If you have a thought of your own, drop me a line at church and main at substeck.com. If you want to know more about the podcast,

[00:17:07] if you're listening to this for the first time, you can go to churchnmain.org. You can also go to leave a, I'm sorry, you can leave a donation. I'm on Venmo and that is at church n main pod

[00:17:28] and also at tip top jar. You can find that at tip.jar.com backslash electric person. So, that is it for this episode of churchnmain. I hope that you all have a good holiday. We can

[00:17:49] especially a good independence day. I am going to be heading out to Michigan to see relatives, but it's also sort of a satification. Some of you may be aware of some of your

[00:18:05] aware that my mother died in February. She was cremated and so we are traveling back to Michigan where I'm from, where my dad is buried for her burial. So we will be taking her for that

[00:18:24] occasion. So prayers if you, if for that it'll be better sweet. It will be good to see relatives and hopefully we'll see them again under better circumstances. But I do hope that you all have a

[00:18:45] good holiday and I will be back next week with a new episode, an interview episode and I'm hope that this episode needs some sense. That is it for this episode of churchnmain. I'm

[00:19:04] Dennis Anderson host as I always like to say thank you so much for listening. Take care, Godspeed and I will see you very soon.