In this solo episode (and last for 2024), I analyze the tragic murder of Brian Thompson, former CEO of UnitedHealthcare, through a moral lens. This discussion leads to a broader critique of societal responses to violence and the need for humility and understanding in healthcare discourse and other issues. I conclude with a call for moral education and empathy in our communities as we navigate complex issues.
Brian Thompson: A Sinner of Christ's Redeeming (a substack article on which this episode is based)
[0:07] where faith, politics, and culture intersect. I'm Dennis Sanders, your host. So, today is a solo episode. It's actually going to be based on an essay I wrote on the recent murder of Brian Thompson, the CEO of UnitedHealthcare. And before I go into that essay, I wanted to kind of put in some background there.
[0:34] Healthcare insurance, I should specify, has always been an issue that I've been interested in, oh gosh, for well over 30 years. I remember years ago, and this is my kind of hidden claim to fame, um, is that I, uh, did a, um, an article on universal healthcare on the Canadian healthcare system. And I, um, got to interview George Stephanopoulos, um, for the Clinton campaign. Unfortunately, I, I made a mistake of try, you know, trying to actually make sure I got his spelling right. And, uh, his name, last name, right. And probably asked him many, too many times to get that correct. But anyway, that has been an issue that has been something I've been interested in for a long time about healthcare and how do we make sure that people have healthcare, healthcare insurance, I should say.
[1:37] And I actually really experienced this personally a few years later after that interview with George Stephanopoulos.
[1:47] And that was kind of talking about, I got pneumonia and it was actually pneumonia that got even worse. It kind of really got kind of toxic and maybe septic and ended up in the hospital. At the time, I didn't have health insurance and I was just worried, how was I going to pay for this? What was I going to do? Luckily, I went to a clinic that dealt with low-income populations And I had a really wise nurse practitioner that was able to get me on, um, basically Medicaid and Medicaid actually paid a lot of, of the bill. Um, and that was kind of amazing cause it was, I wasn't a hospital for two weeks. Um, so I've always been someone that has believed in, um, um.
[2:37] Government states have the state has a role in helping to make sure people have health insurance. Now, I'm a little bit different from some people because I think how we get there doesn't really matter as much. I mean, there are people who think that the only way the only system that matters is if we have a Canadian single payer system, even though that's not the case. Most countries don't have a single-payer system. They have something very different. And they don't even have what they have in the UK, which is where the state controls everything from the healthcare delivery to the insurance itself.
[3:24] But there are different ways that we can get that. And even though I think at first I had my doubts about the Affordable Care Act being someone that's slightly somewhat center right. I was always worried that that was going to lead more to a more Canadian style plan.
[3:44] Didn't. And I think it actually, I think it did. It has done a good job. I'm actually on the exchange. I lost healthcare from my job a few years ago, actually during the pandemic. Yeah. Great time to lose healthcare.
[4:02] And was able to go on the exchange here in Minnesota. We have our own state exchange called Minsure and was able to find a healthcare plan that I like. And And my husband, who also about a few months ago changed switch jobs and the jobs that he was going to did not offer health care, but they did offer a stipend that he could use to purchase health care on the exchange. So um so yeah healthcare is something that matters and um it's not i won't say that america that the united states has a perfect healthcare system i think it's a lot better than it has been, um i think that there are things about our healthcare insurance system that probably are better than in some countries even though again i will be honest and say that we have shortfalls, So, yeah, I think this is not an issue that is just hypothetical for me, even though I think that there is also a role for the private sector in health care, health care insurance and health care.
[5:21] I also think that there is a role also for the state and that the two should work together.
[5:28] And I think that every system, whether it is the single payer system or other systems that guarantee universal care, have drawbacks. There is no such thing as a health care utopia. And anyone that tells you that there is such a thing as health care utopia really, I think, are lying. So health insurance, it matters. And I think that as Christians, we should be trying to find ways that we can do things that can help make sure that people can have health insurance that they can have and not worry about not having health care. And as I know that there are shortcuts or shortfalls to our system, but there are shortfalls to every system. I more and more think a lot about how our system and all of our systems in the world are imperfect because they're made by humans and humans sin and we always fall short.
[6:33] And so, you know, that's kind of where I feel about this. So, when I want to talk about Brian Thompson, it's that I'm talking about an issue that is important to me. And...
[6:54] How we handle that issue also matters to me. And part of what I'm talking about here is because I don't think that we have been handling it well, and that includes people within the church. In fact, I think we've been handling it rather ghastly. So, really, without further ado, I'm just going to go ahead and kind of go into the essay. And again, I'm not reading it verbatim, but you can put a link to it in the show notes, but it will be kind of part of my way of my discussion here.
[7:27] So, the title of this essay is Brian Thompson, A Sinner of Christ's Redeeming, and the subtitle is Why We Need Grace in Talking About Complex Policy Issues. So what has surprised me about the uh about the murder of brian thompson is that he doesn't look like a ceo um ever since i had heard the story about brian thompson uh his murder um shocking murder on the streets of new york on december 4th, what has struck me was how normal he looked there is that picture that we have all seen it's a it's a headshot of thompson you know most pictures we think of ceos are someone in a suit and tie and um we didn't see that instead we have this picture of a middle-aged guy um, And that he is wearing a shirt and a quarter zip sweater. I mean, he really actually does look like a regular guy. Some guy that you would see at Target on the weekend buying toilet paper or something. And not the person who was the head of a large health insurance company.
[8:52] Um and for whatever reason as i've been kind of thinking about this i keep identifying, with this man and i don't know why maybe there are a few reasons it could be that he actually lived just up the road from me um i live in minneapolis um and he lives in a suburb just to the west of minneapolis called maple grove uh it could also be because he's a few years younger than I am. Or maybe it's because of his working class roots. He hailed from Iowa. He was the son of a beautician and a grain operator. He was someone that really actually worked up the corporate ladder. If you really want to, there are two articles that I think really did a good job and trying to suss out who this person was uh one is in the new york times um and the other one is in um in the washington post uh and they did that new york times article was incredibly fascinating they talked about his life they talked about the fact that of his funeral um which unfortunately was a private funeral that took place at a lutheran church in maple grove.
[10:13] The other thing that I find so kind of realistic was even that horrible surveillance video. And you see Thompson, him from the back, he's just casually walking down the street. He's going to his destination. He has a meeting that he was going to. He's walking just like thousands of other people have down the streets of New York. And he has no idea what's going to happen to him. He has no idea that within a few minutes he was going to die.
[10:47] I'm also fascinated, there's a story, as I said, there was another article from the Washington Post, and they talked about the fact about how he responded during COVID. If you remember during COVID, Congress really, and the president, were trying to provide money and aid to basically everybody. And so Congress had set aside billions for health care providers who are struggling to meet payroll when everything shut down. But there was a problem. They didn't know how they were going to get the money to the health care providers.
[11:27] Thompson, who at that time wasn't the CEO, he would be the CEO next year, basically told Washington that UnitedHealthcare could do this. They could do it through their banking arm. And the article notes, and I quote, more than $135 billion would be distributed through the United Health-backed fund, which was credited with keeping thousands of hospitals and other health care providers afloat during the pandemic, unquote. So this is a kind of a story that we don't hear. I mean, I don't know how many stories I've heard and people talking about, well, this guy is responsible for killing thousands of people. And this is an example of which they don't really provide any examples, but this is an example of him actually doing something that helped people and helped doctors and hospitals, especially during a really rough time. Yeah.
[12:28] And now, I want to also stress, I'm not arguing that Thompson was a saint or that he didn't do anything wrong. And in fact, that same Washington Post article does note that at the time of his death, the feds were investigating Thompson for alleged insider trading. What I'm trying to get at is that he was more than this caricature of a greedy CEO. So, and I think what's been really disappointing over the last few weeks is how so many people have made Thompson an avatar for what's wrong with the healthcare insurance tendency.
[13:11] Because, of course, he happened to be the head of a healthcare insurance company, he gets flattened. He gets flattened to this representation of corporate greed. And it's fascinating to see people who normally consider themselves caring, consider themselves against guns, have ended up either outright praising the crime or excusing it. Um cnn commentator michael schmerconish noticed something that was interesting and they and they noticed what he noticed was kind of where thompson probably breathed his last breath mostly if you notice that usually where someone has died somewhere at that spot or near where someone has died people will put flowers and and and memorials to that person i remember this most vivid vividly um for george floyd um having lived here in minneapolis and i remember going kind of to that area which is now called george floyd square um and if you've seen the mural that was made there were just flowers all over the place um.
[14:27] That is usually the case when someone has been murdered or dies in an accident or something. There was nothing for Thompson. There was no memorial. Schmichonis notes that all that there was was kind of a barrier, police barrier, and some pieces of police tape left over. Maybe that's not surprising. again because he was the CEO of the health insurance company and the health insurance industry isn't really loved. There are a lot of people that believe that it's an industry based solely on greed and that they are in business only to deny care. So, and those people in the logic of many, who cares if some CEO that is making, as Thompson did, $110 million a year was gunned down. I think that's why we see such glee and scorn for Thompson and also the very bizarre and weird case of women throwing themselves on his alleged murderer, Luigi Maggiun.
[15:44] A friend of mine shared a link, a video from Tim Whitaker. He is the host of the New Evangelicals podcast. And he did this Instagram reel where he basically says that killing Thompson is wrong. But then he does that very well known now, but, and he launches into the sins of the health care industry, which he believes, like many, is based on greed. And at one point in the video, he says that while murdering, um, Thompson is wrong, so is the killing done by health insurance companies by delight, denying claims and Whitaker then quotes James five, one where he says, now listen, you rich people weep and wail because of the ministry that is misery that is coming on you so this makes me wonder is Whitaker insinuating that Thompson brought this on himself because he happened to be the CEO of a health insurance company.
[16:51] When it comes to the issue of health care in the United States, we want to flatten things out. We want to make them simple. And so we want to do things like excuse a killer and see the mess that is our current health care system as the fault of cartoon-like villains.
[17:14] Now, I don't think that the health care insurance industry is innocent. But it's also not the sole reason for our mess. In fact, the reality is quite more messy than that.
[17:30] If you can, I would hope that you would take the time to read economist Noah Smith, and especially something that journalist Ben Dreyfus did. And both of them really helped to understand that providers, and when we talk about providers, we're talking about hospitals, doctors, and others, are also those that can make healthcare more expensive. And in fact, Dreyfus talks about the fact of a rule that was put in by another healthcare insurance company. I believe that was Anthem, Blue Cross Blue Shield. Maybe you heard about it, about limiting how much time people can use anesthesia. This was kind of read as a heartless health insurance company, basically trying to yank anesthesia in the middle of a surgery. It did not take into effect that there are a few things here. First, anesthesiologists are some of the highest paid doctors in the country.
[18:35] So that means really high insurance. And if you have unlimited time, that's a lot of money. Two, what Anthem was doing was something that is already being done by Medicare. Medicare limits how much time, how much time they're going to pay for anesthesia. And so they were doing something that already was being done by a government program. But because they were a private health insurance company, it was viewed as being selfish.
[19:14] But read the whole story. I think just it would be important for you to do that. But as I said, it's just a lot easier to flatten things out. It's to make a middleman like Thompson UnitedHealthcare just the bad people and that somehow this guy that is stalking and taking out CEOs is going to create a better system, which that's not going to happen.
[19:41] I don't think that Tim Whitaker's hot take is going to be the best way for Christians to deal with this issue. I'm going to be honest, I don't know what the best way is. And as I said earlier in this essay, I've kind of followed health care insurance off and on over the last 30 years, but I'm no expert. But I am a pastor, and I am a Christian, and I do think that there are ways of how we can talk about this issue that are better. So, I'm going to try. I think first, Christians have to say in ways that are as explicitly clear, without reservation, that assassinating a healthcare executive is wrong. In fact, some have said, and I agree, it's terrorism. Don't put a butt after it. Don't talk about people being pushed to a breaking point, because all that does is excuse the murderer. We are a nation of laws. Christians are called to abide by the law, especially that one that says that murder is wrong.
[21:01] Over the last few years, we have talked a lot, especially those of us who have opposed Donald Trump, we've talked about the fact that the rule of law matters. Now, I know that Luigi Mangione is not a politician, but following the rule of law matters.
[21:20] Mangione came from a privileged background. He knew better that killing someone is wrong.
[21:27] He could have used his position. He had everything given to him, and he could have used it to help make our healthcare insurance system better. He could have become a politician himself. He could have been someone that worked somewhere that could have worked to make changes that need to be made. But no, instead, he chose to take a man's life. It seems like from January 6th to October 7th to December 4th when Brian Thompson died, too many people see violence as a legitimate tool to use in society. And that's dangerous, because if it's a legitimate tool, then none of us are safe. Every one of us is a target. We need more people who are willing to say that the ends do not justify the means. When Jesus was unjustly arrested, he counseled against violence. If there's someone who could have done something, anything, when his enemies wanted to do him in, it was Jesus, and he still chose another path.
[22:41] Violence is a cancer to the wider society, and sadly, both those on the right and on the left are too quick and too willing to use and excuse it. The second thing we need to do is we need to recognize the humanity of our enemies. Every human being is created in the image of God and therefore is a child of God. Every one of us is a sinner in need of grace. Looking at things this way means that someone like Brian Thompson was a sinner. Not because he was the CEO of the nation's largest healthcare insurance company, but because he is human. Seeing people as sinners in need of grace means seeing them less as a cartoon character and more as a human being, when we see people as just avatars of evil when we strip them of their very humanity, all we end up doing is doing what Mangione did with Thompson who happened to be the father of two teenage boys Peace.
[23:51] Thompson's normality, as I spoke earlier, is a way of seeing someone who is far more complex than the evil CEO trope that we see on social media. None of this means that he was perfect. None of this means that there weren't problems with our health care insurance system. But he also wasn't thoroughly evil. He didn't deserve this death.
[24:17] Third, it's something that Frederick Schmidt, who is an Episcopal priest, has said, and he wrote this shortly after the murder, is that we need to reestablish moral education. He notes, and I quote, For Christians, that will require the recovery of moral theology, an understanding of ethical behavior that is not a system isolated from other forms of knowledge, but which is grounded in our understanding of God and our place in God's creation. We need to be forthright about that commitment. We need to recover the vocabulary of moral theology, and we need to embrace it, both for our own sake and for subsequent generations. Over and over in the book of Judges, in the Hebrew Scripture or the Old Testament, there's a phrase that's used. And if you remember, the Judges were this interregnum.
[25:18] And, sorry, let me try that again. There's a phrase that's used in judges, and it was always used in this interregnum, interregnum between when God would call a judge to rule, and they would rule for a certain amount of time, and then they would step down, and when another one was called. And there were times of those periods where there wasn't a judge. And that phrase, and this is one example of it is found in Judges 21-25, and it says, in those days, there was no king in Israel. All the people did what was right in their own eyes.
[25:58] What I think that we're seeing, especially in how people try to excuse and responding to Thompson's murder, is that we see what's right in our own eyes. I think that when you have people who are celebrating the murder of an executive on the streets of New York or celebrating the murder of festival goers in Israel or who downplay the ransacking of Congress, there's something amiss in our society. There's something amiss morally. And we really need these days pastors and other Christian leaders that will teach Christians on how we should live ethically, because otherwise the world's going to provide those ethics. They will provide ways that will form people. And the problem is, is that we are being formed in a way that tells others that this is a jungle, that it is a place where we must kill or be killed.
[27:09] The final thing that I want to bring up is that political issues are complex. Healthcare reform is not, healthcare insurance reform is not a simple issue. It's incredibly complex because, frankly, the solutions are complex. People should be open to complexity because any change to our system, our health care insurance system here in America, is going to be fraught with tradeoffs. Right. Insurance companies like united healthcare aren't simply villains do they do bad things most definitely but again check out that story and ben dreyfus about anesthesiologists.
[27:58] You know i wanted to actually also share another a one that is personal to me about a year ago, my doctor suggested I have pre-diabetes. I don't have outright diabetes, but pre-diabetes. And he thought it's important that I might want to try to lose weight. So, you know, I got a dietician and was told here's how we can do things. But he also wanted to see of me going on something like Ozempic. And so we did what they call as a prior authorization through my healthcare insurance company. And they tried that. And my healthcare insurance company said, no, you had to be on, you had to have be on diabetes, had to be diabetic to use it. Now there are alternatives that are actually sold as weight loss, but my health insurance plan does not cover it. I wasn't happy about that. I'm trying to do the best I can to try to lose weight, because I do not want to get diabetes or a heart attack or whatever.
[29:11] But I also understand why health insurance companies do this. One is so many people So going after a company or to use things, drugs like Ozempic and Manjaro actually then creates really a shortage for those who need it. People like my husband, who does have full-blown diabetes and does use Manjaro. And that's important. Second is that these drugs are really expensive. They're not cheap. Right. Healthcare companies do try to cover those, but imagine if they went to have to cover everyone who is on, who is asked for this. It would be impossible, and they would either have to really jack up their premiums, which they don't really want to do, or they'll go out of business. And it's not easier even if the government did it. Um, there are just, it's just hard and it's not easy. Um, it's a trade-off. I'm not, again, I'm not crazy about it, but that's kind of where, uh, things end up.
[30:30] I believe in original sin. And what that means is that everyone, you, me, Brian Thompson, Luigi Mangione, we're all corrupted by sin. Nothing. Nothing is as pure as driven snow.
[30:49] So when we deal with these issues, we have to understand they're complex.
[30:54] There are trade-offs. There is nothing that is the perfect solution.
[31:02] I want to kind of conclude on this essay is to kind of go back to what I began with. And that is that Thompson seemed like a normal guy. He seemed like someone that you would have, I said, met at Target, maybe met at the baseball game. Maybe you would have met him at a high school basketball game. He was a normal guy that seemed like a normal guy that happened to lead a company that is not well viewed by many in our society, I've said this before, I will say it over again he was not perfect, he is a sinner but he did not deserve this.
[31:57] When I was working for the Presbyterians and they're doing communications and a pastor or someone well-known in the local presbytery had died, I would send out an email and include a prayer and send a prayer that's from the Anglican tradition that's usually said at the death of someone. And I've been thinking about that in the case of Brian Thompson. And it goes like this. Into your hands, O merciful Savior, we commend your servant. Acknowledge we humbly beseech you a sheep of your own fold, a lamb of your own flock, a sinner of your own redeeming. Receive him into the arms of your mercy, into the blessed rest of everlasting peace, and into the glorious company of the saints in light. Amen. May his soul and the souls of all departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace. Amen. Brian Thompson is a sinner of Christ's redeeming.
[33:03] Music. I think that we need to remember that in the coming days. Thank you for allowing me to share this essay. As I've said before, healthcare insurance is not an easy issue. It's a complex issue. But I think that we need to hear this. I'm very concerned about how many people seem to be making these excuses. And it worries me about the future of our country, about how we make, how we are kind of really falling into this time of where we're excusing political violence.
[33:07] And so are you. And so am I.
[34:04] And this is not something that is just a problem on the left. It's a problem on the right. we seem to think that violence is okay.
[34:13] Music.
[34:19] And so all I can do is to say, I don't think that this is something that people deserve. And I pray that we can be a nation that learns how to disagree without being disagreeable. To see one another as fellow humans worthy of God's love, that we don't let political issues get in the way of that.
[34:53] So I'm curious to know what you thought about this issue. Feel free to drop me a line. You can send me an email to churchinmaine at substack.com. And again, I will put a link to the article that I wrote in the show notes that also includes links. The article I wrote has links to other the other articles that I refer to. So I hope that you will check those out as well. This will be the last episode for 2024. Won't have any episodes really on this coming week of Christmas. As a pastor, I'm busy, and this will also be a good time to take some time off. So I do hope that you will listen to past episodes if you're looking for something to do during the Christmas break. We will be back in the new year with new stories. And I hope that you have a good Christmas, that we all celebrate the coming of the one who came in the form of a baby, who came in the form of weakness, even though he was the king, and came to bring wholeness and healing and grace to all of us.
[36:22] So, if you want to re-look at past episodes, please check us out at churchinmain.org. You can also visit me at churchinmain.substack.com to read related articles. I hope that you can consider subscribing to the podcast in your favorite podcast app. And if you have a chance, leave a review, a rating, or a review. It helps others find the podcast. So that's it for this episode of Church in Maine. I'm Dennis Sanders, your host. Thank you so much for listening. Take care. Godspeed. Merry Christmas. Happy New Year. And I will see you very soon.