In this episode of Church and Main, I explore the intersection of faith, politics, and culture after President Trump's inauguration, focusing on the critical role the church can play in bridging societal divides. I speak with Cathy Bien, leader of the Campaign for Kindness at the Church of the Resurrection in Leawood, Kansas, about this grassroots initiative to foster understanding during a time of polarization.
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[0:32] Hello, and welcome to Church and Main, a podcast for people interested in the intersection of faith, politics, and culture. I'm Dennis Sanders, your host.
[0:41] So, I'm recording this on January 23rd, which means I'm recording it three days after Donald Trump was sworn in as our nation's 47th president.
[0:50] Amid the flurry of activities in his first few days of office, and trust me, there have been a flurry of activities, one thing remains very clear. The polarization that has defined this nation over the last eight years is going to continue. But can the church be an agent in lowering the partisan temperature? Church of the Resurrection in Leawood, Kansas, which is a United Methodist megachurch in suburban Kansas City, is leading the way with its campaign for kindness. The campaign is a grassroots movement to encourage people to be intentional about treating one another with kindness, even those with whom they disagree with. So today I'm going to be talking with Kathy Bien, the campaign head. Cathy Bien is the leader of PR, media, and special projects at Church of the Resurrection. And I should add that Church of the Resurrection actually has multiple locations throughout the Kansas City area. She has a background in journalism and public relations, and she is passionate about using these communication skills to bring people together, making meaningful connections and building relationships in the community. So join me as we talk about how to bring people together with different beliefs with Cathy Bien.
[2:09] I'll see you next time.
[2:10] Music.
[2:29] Well, thank you, Kathy, for taking the time to chat this afternoon. I think the first thing I wanted to do is to start by asking, getting a little bit of background about Church at the Resurrection. I'm familiar with it. I've actually been to some of the leadership meetings out in Kansas City, but not everyone is familiar with the church. So maybe take a few moments to describe who you are, your role in the Church of the Resurrection, and then about the congregation.
[3:01] I'm happy to do that. Well, Church of the Resurrection is a United Methodist church. We are located in the Kansas City area. We actually are a multi-site church. We have eight, soon to being nine locations throughout the metro area.
[3:18] Right now, we have about 23 members, both worshiping with us in person and online. We are one of the leaders in the United Methodist denomination. And we started back in 1990. So we're coming up on 35 years here. And it's just been been really an exciting ride for us just to realize that the things that we that we value and that we're committed to really resonate with our community. And we also have made a very serious commitment to share everything that we develop and that we learn with other churches to help them. I've been on staff here at Resurrection for over 25 years. So we've really started way back in the early days and have seen a lot of growth and change. My primary role is what we call community relations. So I do a lot of communication, a lot of special programs, a lot of different ways in which we engage with our community and with our denomination.
[4:32] So you have, as a congregation, started a campaign. And the funny thing is, is that I've seen the logo for that campaign pretty much everywhere. And that was the Campaign for Kindness. Yes. And can you tell me a little bit about the history of that? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So in several years ago, we kind of went through some some vision casting, some strategic ideas and really
[5:04] looking at how can we have the greatest impact on our on our community? And we called this Vision 2030. At that time, this was in in 2020. And we were looking at, you know, over the next 10 years, what can we do that will have a significant impact on our community and the world? And we came up with kind of four visions. One of those was the, Well, let me just say, all of these visions were based on closing the gap. You know, here's the world, you know, as it is. Here's the world as we want it to be. What can we as a church and as a congregation do to close that gap, to make our world look more like the kingdom of God? And one of those was the kindness and justice gap. You know, we were seeing, you know, even back then, you know, this increasing polarization in our country.
[5:56] And just, you know, a lot of very serious social issues. And so what can we do to bring people together? So that's one of our areas of emphasis, one of our four closing the gap ideas that we've embraced. And as part of that, we decided that we would do a campaign for kindness and that we would do one every two years and it would correspond with the national election cycle. It's really grown since then. and taken off. This past year in the fall of 2024, that our campaign theme was based on the golden rule, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Prior to that, we had done a love your neighbor campaign. And then in 2022.
[6:43] We did the, based on Micah 6.8, what does the Lord require of you, but that you do justice, love kindness, and walk humbly with God. That was our be campaign, be just kind and humble. But this past fall, we really emphasized the golden rule and do unto others. So we had a logo, we had that was a heart bringing red and blue together to make purple. And it just, it really resonated with people and really took off. We, from the very beginning, wanted to share this with other churches. This year, we had over a thousand churches who used our materials, and they representing 42 states. So I think we were really excited. Pleasantly surprised at how well it was received, but I think it just kind of represents the idea that this is something that people are looking for. You know, people want to find a way to come together.
[7:46] We run the campaign similar to like you might do a political campaign. We use, there's really kind of, you know, two goals. One is to encourage people, well, actually there's three. There's three objectives. One is to encourage people to examine themselves. And what do I personally need to do to embrace this idea of respecting and loving others as we have been commanded to do as Christians? And then the second one is to be deliberate in action. So it's a self-reflection, but it's also personally being deliberate in how you will do that. And then thirdly, to share that message. And so a lot of what we do is to help people and empower them to share the message. We do that through yard signs, through T-shirts, through stickers and campaign buttons, all of those kinds of things. That's kind of the outward facing part of it. But then we also really focus our, during that time period of the campaign, focus our sermons, our messages, our discipleship classes, everything on providing people with resources and skills in order to really put this into action in our community and even down to the granular in our families.
[9:13] Being that we you know one of the things in our day and age that we live in is that we are incredibly polarized and so divided in so many different ways um,
[9:26] And one of the first things that you talked about is examining yourself. And, you know, one of the other ways of kind of looking at that is kind of confession and forgiveness. How important was that to the campaign or is that to the campaign of really being able to not just see it as the other guy's problem, but that this is a human thing of our nature and how do we are accountable to ourselves.
[10:03] Yeah, and I think that's really where the spiritual aspect comes into it. You know, just looking at, you know, as an individual, you know, what am I doing that is not loving my neighbor? You know, it's not being just kind and humble, it's not treating others with the respect that I would want to be treated. So, you know, so it's really, it's an awareness of that. It's looking at what are we supposed to be doing. And then I think for a lot of what we did, it's also helping people to have some tools and some skills to be able to embrace that. We did a lot of work with bringing people together and working on some ways to have some difficult conversations, working on ways in which we can approach things in a different way. One of the things that we used a lot was separating the position from the person.
[11:16] And someone's political position is not does not define who they are as a person and you know enabling you to look at this is a child of god this is a brother or sister in christ and, how can we treat them i might just just add part of this is coming from the fact that we are really a very diverse congregation we're a very large congregation but we're very diverse The last survey that we took, our congregation was about 40% more progressive, more, you know, identify as Democrat, and another 40% that identify as Republican. You know, as Republicans, as more conservative, and, you know, the other 20% somewhere in the middle. So we've really, from the very beginning, have walked that line of not bringing political positions into our church and into our congregation, but we bring our, we bring Jesus positions into the church. I'm just—that's a good way to kind of explain it, that, you know, what—following the gospel, what are we supposed to be doing when it comes to policies? You know, are we caring for the poor? And there's—we are understanding that there are different ways to do that. But what can we agree on that this is what we've been commanded to do?
[12:46] And so how did the campaign go this year, especially? Um, what did you learn from it? What things do you think you could do better next time? Sure. One of, I think the biggest thing that, that we, we learned, um, it really has, it really took off, you know, just that there is such, um, there's such a need for, for this that, um, I, you know, I think people want to, people want, want to find ways to get along, to work together to have compromise and sometimes I think that we feel like we don't have the tools or we may be the only one who feels this way.
[13:33] And helping just to bring people together and find that common ground has been really, really important. Yeah. We also kind of learn that there's a real need for pastors to address this from the pulpit. But I think there kind of tends to be two extremes. There's pastors that have a very strong political persuasion and are not afraid to present that. And then there's pastors that just really avoid it. and um but your congregation need you know needs this they they need this you know this guidance and they need some ways in which they can come together um i our senior pastor reverend adam hamilton uh made a video this as part of our campaign which was really powerful went viral got a lot of attention, but he talks about how people ask him if he is a conservative or a progressive, a Republican or a Democrat, and his answer is yes.
[14:46] And then he goes on to explain the fundamental traits of both sides are very important. We need conservatives who hold to those important traditions and history and the responsibility, things like that. But then if you don't have a more progressive voice, you're going to be stagnant. And, you know, progressives are what help us to move forward and to continue to, you know, to find new ways to do things. And that was a really powerful message to our congregation was acknowledging that both parties are bringing something really important to the table. And we are at our best when we work together and have the best of both sides. Yeah, I think that reminds me of that sense of how much we need one another.
[15:55] There's too much of it in our culture where we feel like we don't need the other who might be different from us or vote different from us, but it's kind of like that verse in the Bible that talks about the foot can't say to the hand, I don't have any need of you. But that is also hard in our culture. I think that it's so autonomous and so that we can't really think beyond ourselves or beyond anyone different from us. Yeah. Yeah. It's an important message. And just that it's easy to say, oh, we're all children of God.
[16:36] But you have to internalize that, and you have to be able to look at someone that just you disagree on almost everything, but at the end of the day, they still are a human being and a child of God. So we had some interesting situations where, because we're a very large church, sometimes people don't know who the members are. We had a couple of instances where people put their yard signs out that said do unto others and realized the neighbor next door that they'd been feuding with went to the same church that they did. And that was a really kind of interesting aha moment. It's like, okay, you know, and so we felt like we built a lot of relationships at a lot of different levels, you know, through the campaign.
[17:31] So what were some of, what are some of the aspects of the campaign that helps kind of try to bridge people together?
[17:40] Um, and yeah, I guess that would be my question there. How, what were those aspects? Sure. So, you know, so, so besides just, you know, kind of embracing the message, um, you know, through the collateral and things like that, And we had four different midweek programs where we brought in some speakers. We did some communication skills, workshops. We, you know, just really getting people to start talking to each other in a safe and guided environment. We also focused during the month of the campaign on serve opportunities. Because when people are working together, serving together, doing something together.
[18:31] That opens up conversation channels and, you know, you're able to find, to get to know one another. So that, you know, those just ways in which we could bring people together in a safe.
[18:49] Non-politically charged environment really kind of help move this forward. But I think the biggest thing is just the messaging from the pulpit and throughout the whole campaign, just over and over about, you know, do unto others and just really, you know, focusing on no matter what you think about someone's opinions or ideas, treating them with kindness and respect. And the other kind of theme that evolved as we went through this, a word that we used a lot, was curiosity. And the idea of asking questions and trying to understand some of another person's perspective, their background, why do they believe what they believe, or why do they think what they think is important. And so we, those were two, kindness and curiosity were the words that just kept coming up over and over throughout this campaign. When we talk about how we treat people. Okay.
[20:05] Did you hear anything from other people who used this program, from other churches, and what were their responses? I'm curious, you know, were most of these churches more progressive churches, more conservative churches? I think they were kind of all over the place. You know, I mean, most of the churches that were United Methodist churches, which may be a little, you know, I would say maybe a little more progressive, but given where they were located across the country, probably a pretty good mix. I think the greatest thing that feedback from the churches was just being able to have resources that they could use that were free. You know, we didn't charge. We gave everything away.
[20:57] And then allowing churches to take it and make it their own. So, you know, it wasn't just you had to do this, this, or this. It was, you know, it's all here. Use what works for you. So, you know, they used some of the Bible studies that we had. They used, you know, some of the sermons, the outlines that we had, used all of our graphics. You know, I think a lot of churches had, you know, they had fun with the yard signs and with the t-shirts because it really was a way in their community to stand out and to take a stand and to say, you know, we want to bring people together. That's what we're about.
[21:41] So what are your outlooks or thoughts coming? So you said you're doing this kind of every two years. So done it for 2024, 2026 are our midterms.
[21:52] What are some of the plans you have with Engage for that upcoming round? Well, we definitely will do another campaign. We're already starting to talk about what the theme would be. We feel like our theme each year needs to be scripturally based. So we're talking about that. And the website that we built for this campaign, we're in the process of making that something that is evergreen, something that could be used by a church at any time throughout the year. You know, it has ideas for sermons, you know, ideas for children's programs, ideas for student ministries. So we're working on kind of transitioning that from one single campaign to something that would be useful throughout the year. That is campaignforkindness.com is that website. And, you know, so then, so we'll continue to develop resources and then launch another campaign in 2026. So this year, really, our emphasis is more on incorporating these ideas into everything that we do and learning from it, learning what works. And then we'll, of course, make those resources available to other churches.
[23:12] Kind of going a little bit farther out from the campaign itself is, as I talked earlier about political polarization, is kind of where do you see things happening in the future? And where do you see the church's role in that? And not just Church of the Resurrection, but the church, the bring people together, especially when there are feelings that are very strong on both sides. How do you do that and allow people to have their opinions, but yet see the other side as more than just the enemy? Because it seems like those messages are so ingrained in our society that it can feel almost, I won't say pointless, but it feels like it's a big challenge. Yeah. And I think that's the hardest thing. We're fortunate in that at Church of the Resurrection, that has really been the message from the beginning.
[24:29] That is who we are. We have said from the very beginning that, you know, everyone is welcome. We are, we are a church for thinking people. We are not going to ask you to check your brain at the door. We're not going to tell you exactly what you have to believe. That's your own personal faith journey. And our pastor Hamilton will, you know, will say, you know.
[25:00] You don't have to agree with me. You don't have to agree with each other. But we're going to love and respect one another. So just coming back to that, you know, very basic principle of loving one another and respecting one another. What does that look like in practical terms is, you know, a little more challenging. And, you know, it's hard.
[25:27] But we you know i think the only way we're going to get through this is to just keep keep focusing on that you know what what does god ask of us and we're gonna we're gonna keep we're gonna keep plugging along and keep doing that i i think one of the things that i i've mentioned this a bit earlier but i think the two kind of fundamental ways in which we could do that is this idea of curiosity. So really getting to know one another within the church, within the community, in deeper ways, in understanding one another, is going to help us to address this polarization, being less isolated, more open to new people, new experiences. And then the other is just this simple idea of kindness and just treating one another with kindness. You know, those are the two things that in what continues to be, you know, a very polarized, politically charged environment, if we can just do that, that's at least getting us on the right direction. And, you know, and we can continue to grow and move from that.
[26:51] It does seem like, as you've brought up the concept of curiosity, and you're not the first one that has brought that up, it makes me think about that life, at least in our culture, should be a lot more about questions than exclamations. And that too much of our culture, especially our exclamation points, this is the way it is, and that there is not enough questions or question marks. Asking questions and listening, you know, listen more, talk less is, you know, kind of what they talk about. But yeah, and really listening. I mean, that's one thing we talked about was, you know, how do you listen? You know, are you listening to learn or are you listening to prepare your own gotcha, you know, kind of response? So, you know, really, you know, authentic listening and asking questions. Yeah. You know, not presuming that we know everything or that we have all the answers.
[28:02] So moving forward, you know, for churches now, I mean, obviously our election for 2024 is over with. We're getting ready for inauguration. And midterms are still about a year and a half off. What advice would you give to churches, especially in the aftermath of what they can do to try to bridge gaps and to bring people together?
[28:33] Especially if there are churches that maybe primarily have people of mostly people on one side of the aisle, but not the other. How do they kind of try to bridge and reach out? Yeah.
[28:47] Yeah, I think to reach out, you really have to look beyond the walls of your church to some of those resources.
[29:00] You know, for example, there's a national organization called Braver Angels, which is a—are you familiar with that, Dennis? It's a secular organization, but it has a faith-based component in groups. It's really taking off with people from all different political persuasions, but who share a faith are coming together and having conversation and finding where there's common ground. And I think things like that, where we can get out of our little enclave of people who think exactly like we do and get to know one another, are going to be really important. And, you know, churches can do that by engaging in their community. They can do that by, you know, through the ways in which they serve in the community, by bringing other groups, you know, into their church for activities and things and opportunities. So it's going to take some creativity, and it's going to take kind of stepping out of our comfort zone to get to know someone new. But, you know, I think there's just a lot of, there's great potential.
[30:25] And, again, it goes back to the heart. And, you know, as our heart changes, then that leads to anxiety. A change of our mind, which leads to action through our hands.
[30:44] And sometimes that works, that works the opposite way. You serve with your hands, it affects your mind, and then it changes your heart. Yeah. I think part of the, maybe an issue or problem has been too often. And you talked about this earlier about maybe that we listened, more, not as much for knowledge as to respond. And maybe the other part of that is that too often we also try to feel like we can change people with facts. And I don't think that that always works.
[31:25] I don't think that the facts as much drive feelings as it is the other way around. And that it seems like a lot of what you're trying to do is affecting the feelings before the facts. The facts will follow, but it's really how we feel and that kind of what's happening in here that matters. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. And it has a lot to do with this idea of seeing the person. And the person is much more than their political persuasion or their position on a social issue. So really seeing and getting to know the person.
[32:18] So if people do want to know more about this and maybe want to get involved, especially next year for midterms, where should they go?
[32:30] The best place would be to start on the website, campaignforkindness.com. Okay. And that's the place where we will be getting some updates on there for any new opportunities coming up. But right now it has all of the resources that we use this fall, which are available to download and use. So we'd love to share it. That's our purpose. And can they still use that material even though the elections have finished? Absolutely. You know, I think some of the sermon messages, you know, some of the curriculum, you know, all of those things are really timeless. Okay. Well, Kathy, thank you so much for taking the time to chat. This was important. Even though, as I said, the election has passed, this is still an issue that will remain. And it's important, especially for Christians as we move forward. Well, and even as the election has passed, it's an important message because now we are rebuilding. Exactly. And the election's over. more than ever, we need to unite and come together. All right. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to chat. Thank you for asking me. I appreciate it. All right.
[33:56] Music.
[34:25] So I'm curious, do you think that polarization is a problem in your congregation or even in your community? And how are you handling it? I'm also curious, have you used the materials provided by the Campaign for Kindness? One thing that I noticed in the run-up to the November 5th election last year was I saw their logo in a lot of different places. And maybe you've seen it too. It's the logo of a heart, which one side is red, the other side is blue, and as Kathy described it, to bring that kind of purple in the middle, that is everywhere. So I'm kind of curious if churches have used that material, and if so, what happened? How, what happened in your congregation? I'd love to know about any of these things. So you can feel free to send me an email at churchandmaine, all one word, at substack.com. I will put links to the Campaign for Kindness in the show notes. Now, if you want to learn more about this podcast, listen to past episodes or donate, visit churchandmaine.org. If you want to read related articles, please consider going to churchandmaine.substack.com.
[35:46] And as I said before, please consider donating. And you can do that by going to churchandmain.org. Also, if you could, please consider leaving a rating or review on your favorite podcast app, especially if you listen to apps such as Overcast or Apple Podcasts. When you do that, that actually helps others find the podcast. And consider passing this episode along to families and friends that might be interested.
[36:19] And then finally, also please consider making sure that you subscribe to whatever podcast app you are on. Sorry, I had a little bit of a brain fart there. But yeah, if whatever podcast app that you listen to, consider subscribing to it. That also helps a lot too. So, that is it for this episode of Church and Maine. I'm Dennis Sanders, your host. As I always like to say, thank you so much for listening. Take care, Godspeed, and I will see you.
[36:55] Music.