Rachel Pieh Jones joins to talk about the importance of potlucks in Minneapolis during a time of division. Drawing from her experiences in Djibouti and Somaliland, Rachel discusses how communal meals can bridge diverse communities and foster empathy, particularly amid the challenges faced by immigrant populations.
Why Minneapolis Needs Potlucks Now
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00:00:27 --> 00:00:30 Hello and welcome to church in maine a podcast for people interested
00:00:30 --> 00:00:34 in the intersection of faith politics and culture
00:00:34 --> 00:00:38 i'm dennis sanders your host so i've
00:00:38 --> 00:00:44 lived in minnesota now for about 30 years actually january marked 30 years of
00:00:44 --> 00:00:50 living here uh one of the things that i've learned over the year is that people
00:00:50 --> 00:00:57 here call casseroles hot dish this is probably showing my Michigan roots,
00:00:58 --> 00:01:00 but I still cannot get used to that name.
00:01:02 --> 00:01:09 But there is something here that, while the practice of potlucks is everywhere,
00:01:10 --> 00:01:14 for some reason here, it's a very Minnesotan thing.
00:01:15 --> 00:01:22 There is something fun about bringing a dish to a gathering and getting to share
00:01:22 --> 00:01:25 these different dishes with each other.
00:01:25 --> 00:01:29 And again, while it's something that I think happens in other parts of the country,
00:01:29 --> 00:01:34 it almost feels like it's something that is also very Minnesotan.
00:01:36 --> 00:01:40 With ICE continuing to have...
00:01:42 --> 00:01:50 Fearsome presence here in Minnesota, one writer has said that what we need right now are potlucks.
00:01:51 --> 00:01:57 Rachel Pye Jones is a Minneapolis-based writer who wrote an article for Plow
00:01:57 --> 00:01:59 Magazine on this very topic.
00:01:59 --> 00:02:09 And it came out probably at just the right time because the article went live on January 24th.
00:02:09 --> 00:02:17 Now, this was the same day that VA nurse Alex Preddy was gunned down on a Minneapolis
00:02:17 --> 00:02:20 street by two agents of the Border Patrol.
00:02:21 --> 00:02:29 So today, I am talking with Rachel about this article and why we need potlucks
00:02:29 --> 00:02:31 here in Minnesota right now.
00:02:32 --> 00:02:35 Before we go into the interview a little bit about Rachel.
00:02:35 --> 00:02:40 She is the author of Pillars, How Muslim Friends Led Me Closer to Jesus,
00:02:41 --> 00:02:44 and then also the book Stronger Than Death,
00:02:44 --> 00:02:51 How Annalena Tonelli Defied Terror and Tuberculosis in the Horn of Africa.
00:02:52 --> 00:02:55 She's also written for the New York Times, Christian Science Monitor,
00:02:55 --> 00:02:58 Huffington Post, Runner's World, and Christianity Today.
00:03:00 --> 00:03:07 In 2003, she moved to Somaliland and a year later, she moved to neighboring
00:03:07 --> 00:03:09 Djibouti where she stayed until 2023.
00:03:09 --> 00:03:12 And while she was there, she and her husband ran a school.
00:03:15 --> 00:03:23 Now, here is my conversation with Rachel Pye-Jones about why Minneapolis needs potlucks.
00:03:43 --> 00:03:46 Well, thanks so much for joining me here today.
00:03:47 --> 00:03:51 I kind of wanted to start to get to know a little bit about you and your spiritual
00:03:51 --> 00:03:54 background and kind of a little bit about who you are.
00:03:57 --> 00:04:01 Rachel Pie Jones is my name. And like I said earlier, you guessed the middle
00:04:01 --> 00:04:03 name correctly, it's actually my middle name.
00:04:03 --> 00:04:07 I was born and raised in New Brighton, Minnesota.
00:04:07 --> 00:04:10 So I went to irondale high school and my family attended a
00:04:10 --> 00:04:14 baptist church in columbia heights um then
00:04:14 --> 00:04:17 in so i got married in 1999 and
00:04:17 --> 00:04:22 my husband and i moved into the riverside apartment complex cedar riverside
00:04:22 --> 00:04:27 downtown yeah yeah um the we were in uh i can't i think it was a 22nd floor
00:04:27 --> 00:04:35 apartment with a yellow block on the outside with mostly somali neighbors and so from that community,
00:04:36 --> 00:04:39 my husband and I, we had already knew that we wanted to live abroad,
00:04:39 --> 00:04:44 motivated by our faith and just the desire to see more of the world and participate
00:04:44 --> 00:04:47 in what God was doing other places.
00:04:47 --> 00:04:50 And so through our connections and Somali friends in that community,
00:04:50 --> 00:04:57 we ended up moving to Somaliland, Northern Somalia in 2003, where my husband worked as a professor.
00:04:58 --> 00:05:01 And we stayed there in Somaliland for less than a year.
00:05:02 --> 00:05:04 And then we moved to Djibouti, which is right across the border,
00:05:04 --> 00:05:07 also majority Somali, and lived there for 20 years.
00:05:08 --> 00:05:13 Wow. And then moved back to New Brighton, Minnesota, actually, in 2023.
00:05:14 --> 00:05:22 And so in terms of a spiritual biography, my faith has been really transformed by that experience.
00:05:22 --> 00:05:26 So like I said, I grew up Baptist in Columbia Heights, which at that time was.
00:05:27 --> 00:05:32 Pretty white of a community, not very ethnically diverse a little bit, but not a lot.
00:05:32 --> 00:05:35 And it's really changed since my childhood years.
00:05:35 --> 00:05:41 But then especially by being immersed in a Somali Muslim community for 21 years,
00:05:41 --> 00:05:45 essentially all of my adult life, raising my kids there, building community
00:05:45 --> 00:05:52 there, my own faith really has been impacted by what I learned from my Somali friends.
00:05:52 --> 00:05:57 And so, yeah, just thinking about things like fasting and pilgrimage,
00:05:57 --> 00:06:03 and creed and generosity and hospitality, all these things have actually strengthened
00:06:03 --> 00:06:07 my Christian faith, I feel like, but also shifted it in some ways.
00:06:08 --> 00:06:13 And now I'm back in Minnesota and navigating culture and faith and life here.
00:06:15 --> 00:06:21 And it's kind of interesting, you're talking about your time in Djibouti and
00:06:21 --> 00:06:25 kind of relations, especially with the Somali population,
00:06:25 --> 00:06:31 that kind of really goes into this article that you wrote for Plough Magazine
00:06:31 --> 00:06:37 about how Minneapolis needs more potlucks right now. And.
00:06:39 --> 00:06:43 One, I can't think of anything more Minnesotan than to talk about potlucks.
00:06:44 --> 00:06:48 But what led you to write about that article, which I think was a great way
00:06:48 --> 00:06:54 of kind of also talking a little bit about your experiences in getting to know
00:06:54 --> 00:06:55 people from different communities.
00:06:55 --> 00:07:02 But what kind of led you to think about this is what you wanted to share with the wider world?
00:07:02 --> 00:07:05 Well, I actually have Plough specifically to credit for that.
00:07:05 --> 00:07:11 So right after Renee Good was killed, I think it was maybe two days later,
00:07:12 --> 00:07:16 I actually left the U.S. and went back to Djibouti. We'd had this trip planned already.
00:07:17 --> 00:07:21 And as I was leaving, even at the airport, there was ice presence.
00:07:21 --> 00:07:25 And it was just really, really building, the public nature of it and kind of
00:07:25 --> 00:07:27 some of the aggression of it.
00:07:27 --> 00:07:34 And then I left the country. And I had this real, just a conflict of emotion, I guess.
00:07:34 --> 00:07:37 I mean, I wanted to go. So I wanted to do this trip that we were going back
00:07:37 --> 00:07:42 to do some work there, actually to deal with some difficult situations there
00:07:42 --> 00:07:45 that parallel in interesting ways what's been happening here.
00:07:46 --> 00:07:49 But I felt kind of helpless. Like, I want to do something. I want to participate.
00:07:49 --> 00:07:50 I want to know what's going on.
00:07:50 --> 00:07:54 And actually, while I was en route, I got an email from my publisher.
00:07:54 --> 00:07:55 I've written two books with Plough.
00:07:56 --> 00:08:00 And so they reached out and they said, hey, Rachel, you're on the ground in Minneapolis.
00:08:00 --> 00:08:05 Would you give us a story about how Christians are loving their neighbors?
00:08:05 --> 00:08:09 And I thought, oh, shoot, I'm actually not on the ground. I'm literally in the air.
00:08:10 --> 00:08:15 But then I was able to use my layovers and then also upon arrival to do some
00:08:15 --> 00:08:17 interviews with friends that I knew were active,
00:08:17 --> 00:08:24 including Somali friends and white American friends and just broad across the
00:08:24 --> 00:08:28 spectrum of people to hear what they were doing.
00:08:28 --> 00:08:31 And so I felt like at least I could contribute through my work,
00:08:31 --> 00:08:32 my writing words while I was away.
00:08:33 --> 00:08:37 And that was really meaningful to me. And then personally, that article stemmed
00:08:37 --> 00:08:40 out of an experience I had as I was wrestling with how do I start this?
00:08:40 --> 00:08:42 What do I think we need? What's important?
00:08:42 --> 00:08:48 And it's not very viral to say, let's eat bread together or break bread together.
00:08:48 --> 00:08:54 You know, it's pretty easy to go to some volatile extreme and to spout rhetoric.
00:08:54 --> 00:08:58 Maybe not easy, but that could be the tendency for some people. That's not where I live.
00:08:58 --> 00:09:04 I live in the complexity of a middle space, which I think is kind of epitomized
00:09:04 --> 00:09:08 by being in the airplane between worlds as I was trying to wrestle with this reality.
00:09:08 --> 00:09:12 But I do really believe in the power of sharing bread because that's been my
00:09:12 --> 00:09:16 experience, again, with Somalis so many times of eating together and sharing
00:09:16 --> 00:09:20 fellowship together over the breaking the fast at the end of the day or having
00:09:20 --> 00:09:23 a celebratory wedding party or after my baby was born,
00:09:23 --> 00:09:27 celebrating with food in very specific ways that were deeply meaningful and
00:09:27 --> 00:09:28 relationship building.
00:09:29 --> 00:09:32 So there's this idea of, I didn't even write about it in the article, but joyful attachment.
00:09:34 --> 00:09:38 And a theologian, Evelyn Ria Shachet, I think that's how you say her name.
00:09:38 --> 00:09:42 She's written about this with Muslim Christian relationships and how by actually
00:09:42 --> 00:09:47 participating in real life, sharing a meal, going on a hike,
00:09:47 --> 00:09:52 you know, doing regular things together builds this relational attachment of joy. And so,
00:09:52 --> 00:09:57 I had been thinking about that concept and then right after Trump had made the
00:09:57 --> 00:09:59 comments about garbage Somalis,
00:10:00 --> 00:10:06 I'd gone to a protest at the Somali Mall, the Carmel Mall down in South Minneapolis,
00:10:06 --> 00:10:08 which they actually framed as a potluck protest.
00:10:09 --> 00:10:13 And so people brought Sambusas, people brought Rice Krispie bars,
00:10:13 --> 00:10:17 people brought, you know, hot dish or casserole, We call it Hot Dish in Minnesota.
00:10:17 --> 00:10:24 And the idea of being there and saying, no, my neighbors, my small neighbors
00:10:24 --> 00:10:28 are not garbage and we're going to eat together felt really profound.
00:10:28 --> 00:10:32 And so I framed the article through that lens and then took it into talking
00:10:32 --> 00:10:36 about how people are practically caring for neighbors right now.
00:10:37 --> 00:10:42 Yeah, one of the things that, as I read that and even hearing it just now,
00:10:42 --> 00:10:49 is the tradition that I am a pastor and the Disciples of Christ,
00:10:50 --> 00:10:55 we kind of center everything, we have communion every Sunday.
00:10:55 --> 00:11:01 And it's something that we, it's kind of central to our, the way who we are.
00:11:01 --> 00:11:08 And so it led me to think a lot about how this related to your talk about potlucks,
00:11:08 --> 00:11:11 that it's a way of communing.
00:11:11 --> 00:11:18 It's a way of coming together and kind of living out the meal that Christ shared
00:11:18 --> 00:11:24 in a kind of a very meaningful way right now.
00:11:24 --> 00:11:27 Absolutely. That's beautiful that you do it every Sunday.
00:11:27 --> 00:11:30 Yeah. So...
00:11:32 --> 00:11:36 Why do you think that we do need potlucks right now? I mean, what is it?
00:11:36 --> 00:11:40 And is it just here in Minneapolis? Or is it actually something a little bit
00:11:40 --> 00:11:42 more nationwide that we need it?
00:11:43 --> 00:11:46 I would, the easy answer is yes, nationwide. I think we need it.
00:11:46 --> 00:11:47 I think we need it globally.
00:11:48 --> 00:11:52 I think we need it across cultures and communities and borders.
00:11:52 --> 00:11:55 You know, not just a potluck with someone who's like you. But one of the beautiful
00:11:55 --> 00:12:01 things about potluck is that you bring your dish, maybe your family's favorite.
00:12:02 --> 00:12:06 Meal or favorite dessert. You bring it to a table and you all put it out on the table.
00:12:06 --> 00:12:10 And then you're trying somebody else's. Like the imagery of a potluck is this
00:12:10 --> 00:12:11 idea of I'm going to try some of your food.
00:12:12 --> 00:12:15 And a lot of times when I was a kid at a potluck, I liked mine the best.
00:12:15 --> 00:12:19 Anyway, I always ate my mom's, but I tried other people's. And then you get
00:12:19 --> 00:12:22 this curiosity about where did that recipe come from?
00:12:22 --> 00:12:26 How is that meaningful in your family or your heritage? What can I learn from that?
00:12:27 --> 00:12:32 Maybe I'll even take some of that leftovers home in my bucket and bring it back to my home.
00:12:32 --> 00:12:35 I'm still going to bring my own bucket back. Like there's ways of really framing
00:12:35 --> 00:12:40 a potluck as a beautiful picture of holding onto something you treasure and
00:12:40 --> 00:12:47 love while welcoming in a curiosity and delight about somebody else's culture and contribution.
00:12:47 --> 00:12:51 And so in that way, like the picture of a potluck, I think is a really beautiful
00:12:51 --> 00:12:56 way to frame how this experience can bring people together across difference
00:12:56 --> 00:13:00 without requiring agreement or consensus.
00:13:00 --> 00:13:04 But there's still a participatory nature in experiencing someone else's,
00:13:05 --> 00:13:06 what they love and cherish.
00:13:07 --> 00:13:12 And so I think we need the image of a potluck. I think we need a literal potluck of eating together.
00:13:13 --> 00:13:16 And I think we even need more than that right now. There's such division,
00:13:16 --> 00:13:21 of course, in Minneapolis right now with what is happening and how people are
00:13:21 --> 00:13:25 responding to it, how people are thinking about it, how it's actually affecting real life.
00:13:26 --> 00:13:30 There's a lot of fear and anger and sorrow and grief.
00:13:30 --> 00:13:33 And a lot of it is, I mean, it's legitimate, right?
00:13:34 --> 00:13:38 And yet, and so saying let's just eat food together sounds so trite in some ways.
00:13:39 --> 00:13:44 And yet food is nourishing. It can have this real comfort feel,
00:13:44 --> 00:13:47 especially when it's something from your childhood or heritage or,
00:13:48 --> 00:13:51 I think there's something really precious in saying to someone,
00:13:51 --> 00:13:53 I'd love to see what you have to bring.
00:13:54 --> 00:13:56 And so the, yeah, Yeah, the literal potlucking together, I think,
00:13:57 --> 00:14:00 can bring some healing, can be an opportunity and a space for that.
00:14:00 --> 00:14:03 And then I think we need more than that as well, like some active...
00:14:04 --> 00:14:10 Participation in what's happening in Minneapolis and then nationally, and I think globally.
00:14:12 --> 00:14:15 And when you kind of talk about it in your article,
00:14:16 --> 00:14:23 it seems like it's not even really just food, but there are other ways of how
00:14:23 --> 00:14:28 people are bringing things to help each other.
00:14:28 --> 00:14:32 Can you kind of explain a little bit more about what you meant by that? Yeah.
00:14:33 --> 00:14:37 So there's people, it can be very practical things.
00:14:37 --> 00:14:41 People are bringing diapers, bringing menstrual products to families who are
00:14:41 --> 00:14:43 afraid to leave their homes right now.
00:14:43 --> 00:14:46 So that's a real practical thing. There are.
00:14:47 --> 00:14:51 There are people, some being more, again, specifically thinking of the ICE context
00:14:51 --> 00:14:55 in Minnesota right now, there are people who are being much more aggressive
00:14:55 --> 00:14:59 and public or visible in their activity, their activism,
00:14:59 --> 00:15:02 they're standing on corners, helping people get to buses or,
00:15:02 --> 00:15:04 you know, blowing whistles and all that kind of stuff.
00:15:04 --> 00:15:07 One of the people I interviewed for that article, his name is Timothy,
00:15:07 --> 00:15:10 and he has been an ice watcher.
00:15:10 --> 00:15:16 And he was very clear that it's non-confrontational, that he is watching to
00:15:16 --> 00:15:20 let the people on both the ice person and the person being taken know that they're being witnessed.
00:15:20 --> 00:15:26 He feels like he's being a witness and a faithful member of the body of Christ in witnessing.
00:15:26 --> 00:15:29 And then also to see if, hey, do you need any paperwork?
00:15:29 --> 00:15:33 Do you have legal paperwork but not on you? And then he would be able to follow
00:15:33 --> 00:15:39 that person, eventually get access through some law, legal help to their paperwork
00:15:39 --> 00:15:42 to get them what they needed at the detention center.
00:15:43 --> 00:15:46 So things like that, or following a person as they would get moved around the United States.
00:15:46 --> 00:15:51 Maybe they get to Texas and then it is found out that that person is a legal resident.
00:15:51 --> 00:15:55 So they're released in Texas, but they don't have their papers. They don't have a phone.
00:15:55 --> 00:15:59 They don't have any money. And so people are helping those people get back home
00:15:59 --> 00:16:04 by sometimes flying down to Texas to escort them back to Minnesota or helping
00:16:04 --> 00:16:05 them get the funds they need.
00:16:05 --> 00:16:10 And so by potluck, it's sort of sharing resources. People are sharing time and
00:16:10 --> 00:16:13 money and emotional support.
00:16:13 --> 00:16:17 There are some churches that are opening up their space for healing spaces.
00:16:17 --> 00:16:21 So I know Park Avenue Methodist, I think at least once a week,
00:16:21 --> 00:16:28 they're opening up their building to offer therapy and trauma-informed counseling
00:16:28 --> 00:16:32 and just be a space for people to come together and process what they're experiencing here.
00:16:33 --> 00:16:35 And so there's all kinds of ways that people are bringing what they have,
00:16:36 --> 00:16:40 their resources, and then participating in the community. Sometimes it's just...
00:16:41 --> 00:16:46 Showing up. Like my daughter this week, she did a food delivery.
00:16:46 --> 00:16:51 So she was just in the car helping the driver. So she's navigating the maps
00:16:51 --> 00:16:55 and texting with the people to make sure they're available and know that it's coming.
00:16:55 --> 00:17:00 So yeah, all kinds of ways people can participate together and really be caring for their neighbor.
00:17:02 --> 00:17:09 Yeah. And I was actually going to ask you kind of next about that situation
00:17:09 --> 00:17:16 with your friend who is working kind of with the Afghan community.
00:17:16 --> 00:17:20 Because I think that that was kind of moving to read about that.
00:17:20 --> 00:17:25 And of course, we kind of are aware of the situation, especially in Afghanistan,
00:17:25 --> 00:17:32 as people, as the Taliban were coming back into power, of people basically fleeing for their lives.
00:17:32 --> 00:17:41 And now we're in this situation where they could be picked up and could be sent back.
00:17:41 --> 00:17:50 And just kind of what he's doing in some ways of trying to, I guess,
00:17:51 --> 00:18:01 bring something to a potluck that in a case where people aren't in danger and in true danger.
00:18:01 --> 00:18:05 And also then trying to track things and all of that. Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah.
00:18:07 --> 00:18:11 Yeah. So how if, you know,
00:18:12 --> 00:18:18 especially, you know, when you wrote that it was just after Renee Good's killing,
00:18:18 --> 00:18:24 obviously now we have had, and I think maybe when that article came,
00:18:24 --> 00:18:31 was published, it was maybe just a day or two or even the day of Alex Preddy's killing.
00:18:32 --> 00:18:37 And it seems like everything after that kind of ratcheted up much more.
00:18:39 --> 00:18:42 How do you see the community.
00:18:44 --> 00:18:54 Being and delivering potluck, especially after Alex Preddy's killing in that situation.
00:18:55 --> 00:18:59 Yeah, it does feel like things are changing so fast and happening so fast.
00:18:59 --> 00:19:04 And so I wrote it, and by the time it was posted, that Alex Preddy had been
00:19:04 --> 00:19:07 killed. And it just feels like every day something new is happening.
00:19:07 --> 00:19:10 And so, yeah, ratcheting up is a good way to put it.
00:19:11 --> 00:19:15 Hopefully, things are ratcheting down, but I don't know yet if that's the reality.
00:19:16 --> 00:19:24 And so, for example, I participated in a call on Tuesday this week with four
00:19:24 --> 00:19:28 women in Minneapolis here just talking about what it's like to raise our kids
00:19:28 --> 00:19:31 here right now, what it's like to do a school drive right now.
00:19:31 --> 00:19:35 And I think it was even the first words out of my mouth might have been,
00:19:35 --> 00:19:38 I haven't seen any ice activity in my neighborhood yet.
00:19:38 --> 00:19:42 I had granted been out of the country for the last 11 days, And so I'd only
00:19:42 --> 00:19:46 been back in Minnesota for two days or so, three days. But that's what I said.
00:19:47 --> 00:19:51 Very next day, I was on my run in the morning. And sure enough,
00:19:51 --> 00:19:54 there was an ice convoy about a half mile from my house.
00:19:55 --> 00:19:58 And then yesterday, so two days after I did that conversation,
00:19:58 --> 00:20:03 there was an incident on my street where two houses down and our driveway was actually blocked.
00:20:04 --> 00:20:06 And so that's just an example of how things are changing so fast.
00:20:07 --> 00:20:09 That doesn't answer your question about how people are potlucking right now.
00:20:09 --> 00:20:14 But through that, and because it's happening, you know.
00:20:15 --> 00:20:18 Engaging with people and hearing their stories. And then all of a sudden there's
00:20:18 --> 00:20:22 been, I'm discovering more resources that are available, more things people
00:20:22 --> 00:20:27 are doing as I start having conversations more now that I'm back.
00:20:28 --> 00:20:34 And so, you know, through our church, that was how we got connected to a food
00:20:34 --> 00:20:36 delivery committee group.
00:20:37 --> 00:20:43 There was a kindergarten parent meeting at the elementary school this week.
00:20:43 --> 00:20:47 And so I know someone, And a number of people, they were nervous about potentially
00:20:47 --> 00:20:49 ice showing up. And so a number of people went over just to bear witness.
00:20:50 --> 00:20:52 And so there's things like that that are happening.
00:20:53 --> 00:21:02 I have, yeah, there's a, I have a chaplain friend and she's talked about even potlucking with ice.
00:21:03 --> 00:21:07 For example, as a chaplain, you minister to everybody, whoever comes in.
00:21:07 --> 00:21:11 And so it's a, she has just these beautiful stories of experiencing,
00:21:12 --> 00:21:17 for example, a priest caring for, ministering to a woman in the hospital whose son had been detained.
00:21:17 --> 00:21:20 And she's in the hospital for whatever reason, medically. And the priest is
00:21:20 --> 00:21:26 ministering to her and weeping with her, goes out from her room and walks straight
00:21:26 --> 00:21:29 to the ICE agents and starts ministering to them and saying,
00:21:29 --> 00:21:30 how are you doing? Are you okay?
00:21:30 --> 00:21:36 And like, it's just, they're also our neighbors. I mean, it's complicated to say that right now.
00:21:37 --> 00:21:41 But they are, they're in Minnesota. And she said most of them at her hospital
00:21:41 --> 00:21:44 are Hispanic. And so they are wrestling with their own.
00:21:46 --> 00:21:50 Community and what's happening there. And, you know, just trying to treat everybody
00:21:50 --> 00:21:58 with dignity and respect with also all the emotions that are stirred up, right?
00:21:58 --> 00:22:02 The anger, grief, desires for justice.
00:22:02 --> 00:22:06 How do we hold all of that? And that's tricky.
00:22:07 --> 00:22:09 And there's some real beauty in it.
00:22:10 --> 00:22:15 I don't have answers for it. I just try to show up and care when I can and receive
00:22:15 --> 00:22:18 care Also, I don't know if that, again, answers your question,
00:22:18 --> 00:22:22 but just some stories and things that I'm seeing and wrestling with and thinking about.
00:22:23 --> 00:22:30 No, I think it does. I think, you know, things have, it kind of feels like things
00:22:30 --> 00:22:35 have ratcheted up and I don't know if they have ratcheted down yet.
00:22:36 --> 00:22:39 I think everyone is outside of
00:22:39 --> 00:22:47 Minnesota thinks, well, maybe we've de-escalated. And I'm like, maybe not.
00:22:49 --> 00:22:56 You know, it's difficult. And I think there is something to say about how do
00:22:56 --> 00:23:00 we minister even to people working for ICE.
00:23:01 --> 00:23:08 I think it's very easy to say we don't have to do that or to let the emotions
00:23:08 --> 00:23:15 get the best of us. but I think that they are also humans created in the image of God as well.
00:23:15 --> 00:23:21 And as difficult as that is, I think that's also important. Mm-hmm.
00:23:23 --> 00:23:25 That's so…it's just so….
00:23:27 --> 00:23:35 Painful. In my experience in Djibouti, I have been, I've written quite a bit
00:23:35 --> 00:23:40 about this, but the harassment that I experienced was pretty extensive and steady.
00:23:41 --> 00:23:45 Often people throwing things at me, spitting on our car, just different things.
00:23:45 --> 00:23:48 I'm a runner and so I would run and so I was often just kind of out and about.
00:23:49 --> 00:23:57 And the feeling of the dehumanizing that, just how it cuts your sense of who
00:23:57 --> 00:24:00 you are and safety in your body and things like this.
00:24:01 --> 00:24:06 I really, that has been poked and triggered through this experience of seeing that happening.
00:24:07 --> 00:24:13 And so thinking about people who are being targeted just because of their racial
00:24:13 --> 00:24:17 profiling or where they are standing or what they're doing,
00:24:18 --> 00:24:24 it's just the fear that that kind of puts into your body and how that takes hold.
00:24:25 --> 00:24:28 I just have a deep sensitivity to that. And so there's a lot of,
00:24:29 --> 00:24:36 yeah, I just feel such a weight for our, you know, immigrant neighbors and what
00:24:36 --> 00:24:39 they're holding in their bodies of the fear.
00:24:40 --> 00:24:44 Yeah. And then, and then also just to, I'm trying, I'm trying to transfer that
00:24:44 --> 00:24:47 also to empathy and compassion for,
00:24:47 --> 00:24:52 again, there's a, I heard a story of a National Guard woman who was walking
00:24:52 --> 00:24:57 into work at a clinic and someone threw a cantaloupe at her and she ended up limping.
00:24:58 --> 00:25:04 You know, she got, so just that feeling of, oh, this is so hard to navigate all of this.
00:25:04 --> 00:25:07 And how do we treat really, I really do believe that the poor,
00:25:08 --> 00:25:13 poor is everyone who's made an image of God and deserves to be treated with kindness and dignity.
00:25:14 --> 00:25:18 And, but then what do you do when this stuff is happening in your community? And,
00:25:20 --> 00:25:26 There's a lifetime wrestle happening. You know, I mean, I think you also bring
00:25:26 --> 00:25:28 up something that is also important because you're,
00:25:29 --> 00:25:36 is maybe the feeling of, and I feel sometimes we use the word way too much,
00:25:36 --> 00:25:39 but I think it's probably apt in this situation,
00:25:40 --> 00:25:48 trauma that the immigrant community, but even really the general population are feeling?
00:25:49 --> 00:25:52 Because I think all of this can be very weary.
00:25:55 --> 00:26:02 The constant feeling on alert, not knowing if a certain place you want to go
00:26:02 --> 00:26:08 out to eat is open or not, or if the doors are locked or all of that stuff.
00:26:10 --> 00:26:13 How do you think that a potluck can help in
00:26:13 --> 00:26:17 that situation where people are just all stressed
00:26:17 --> 00:26:20 right that's a really
00:26:20 --> 00:26:25 good question because it is so real um with
00:26:25 --> 00:26:28 what happened on our street yesterday one of the mothers she
00:26:28 --> 00:26:31 said my main concern right now is that my the bus doesn't
00:26:31 --> 00:26:34 come yet the school bus was supposed to come and she just didn't want her kids
00:26:34 --> 00:26:39 to see because of that it's there's this hyper vigilance that is exhausting
00:26:39 --> 00:26:44 and it's being experienced from children through adults everybody in the community
00:26:44 --> 00:26:49 and like you said maybe the restaurant's not going to be open and just kind of looking out,
00:26:49 --> 00:26:54 the hyper vigilance it's real so so how does a potluck address that um.
00:26:56 --> 00:27:00 Food, again, like to be very tangible about it, whether it's,
00:27:00 --> 00:27:05 again, food or some kind of practical help, a resource, it's so tangible.
00:27:05 --> 00:27:10 It's so embodied. Like there's taste and scent and texture and feeling.
00:27:11 --> 00:27:16 And so it kind of, I think, can bring us back to a sense of groundedness in our bodies.
00:27:18 --> 00:27:21 It gives energy and sustenance. And so there's deep meaning to it.
00:27:21 --> 00:27:24 But even just, like I said, the practicality of it, washing your hands and just,
00:27:24 --> 00:27:30 you know, there's this idea of touch grass right now, but connecting to something
00:27:30 --> 00:27:36 very physical, I think is deeply valuable and, um, being able to do that in community.
00:27:37 --> 00:27:40 There is something healing about it.
00:27:41 --> 00:27:45 I'm a PhD student right now. And one thing that I'm, I'm angling towards studying
00:27:45 --> 00:27:49 is the culinary practices of Somali women and how that contributes to their
00:27:49 --> 00:27:51 sense of community and belonging.
00:27:51 --> 00:27:55 And so I think I haven't, I haven't researched it yet, but I think there is
00:27:55 --> 00:28:00 something deeply, deeply connective about cooking together and eating together
00:28:00 --> 00:28:02 and sharing that with other people.
00:28:02 --> 00:28:07 And so, you know, Wednesday night, here's just a practical example. I was exhausted.
00:28:07 --> 00:28:10 I had just everything was kind of felt like too much.
00:28:11 --> 00:28:15 And my mom called and said, do you want to come over for dinner? And I almost said no.
00:28:15 --> 00:28:19 And I thought, no, I just because when you eat with other people, you have to stop.
00:28:19 --> 00:28:23 If I ate at my desk at home, I would just keep working and I would be eating
00:28:23 --> 00:28:26 by myself and I'd keep on working and keep on reading stuff and responding to things.
00:28:26 --> 00:28:31 Well, when I go to my parents' house to eat, I have to put aside my work.
00:28:31 --> 00:28:35 I have to focus on that relationship and then we're spending time just away
00:28:35 --> 00:28:40 and out of that the the traumatic fear experience that we're happening outside
00:28:40 --> 00:28:45 the doors you know and so I think the thing about eating together makes us slow
00:28:45 --> 00:28:49 down even the eating process and gives us an opportunity to,
00:28:50 --> 00:28:54 just to sit and talk and maybe think about something else for a little bit again
00:28:54 --> 00:28:59 not to have an escape or an excuse but we there there needs to be some kind
00:28:59 --> 00:29:03 of release also, an opportunity to laugh and be together.
00:29:07 --> 00:29:12 How does you think potluck flows into worship in our community?
00:29:13 --> 00:29:18 I think you talked a little bit about churches offering prayer visuals, and I've seen that, too.
00:29:20 --> 00:29:23 And I'm kind of curious, obviously, those two do go together.
00:29:23 --> 00:29:28 At least I've noticed that here. But where do you see that happening?
00:29:28 --> 00:29:33 I think a lot of it. Well, yeah, I think gratitude is something that I just
00:29:33 --> 00:29:36 think of immediately with food and with potlucking,
00:29:37 --> 00:29:40 when I have participated in a potluck in Djibouti, we ran, eventually my husband
00:29:40 --> 00:29:44 and I ran an international school and we would have potlucks.
00:29:44 --> 00:29:50 And just the overwhelming joy and gratitude that comes from seeing all these
00:29:50 --> 00:29:53 beautiful foods displayed out together and the gifts that people had brought
00:29:53 --> 00:29:56 to give one another and then also to partake of together.
00:29:56 --> 00:30:03 There's something that wells up for me anyway of gratitude, gratitude to God
00:30:03 --> 00:30:06 that this is the, this is my community. These are the people that I live around.
00:30:07 --> 00:30:10 This is the world that you have made and all of the beautiful things that are
00:30:10 --> 00:30:13 a part of it. And so for me, that really does turn into worship.
00:30:15 --> 00:30:20 Gratitude for the depth of relationships that can be fostered through potluck.
00:30:20 --> 00:30:23 I think all of that is part of worship and comes to that.
00:30:23 --> 00:30:27 And then, yeah, I was thinking about, I think it does come back to you,
00:30:27 --> 00:30:32 Chris, like what you said, and recognizing the body of price both physically
00:30:32 --> 00:30:35 and metaphorically as a community together.
00:30:39 --> 00:30:44 And in your experience, since you've been and spent time, you know,
00:30:44 --> 00:30:46 two decades in Djibouti,
00:30:47 --> 00:30:54 what do you think from that experience has helped you in your current context and in here right now?
00:30:54 --> 00:30:59 And I know you've kind of touched on it a little bit in the article,
00:30:59 --> 00:31:05 but also here, But how do you think that that has all prepared you for what's happening now?
00:31:07 --> 00:31:14 Yeah, it's a really interesting question and kind of, so I could take it in many directions.
00:31:14 --> 00:31:18 One of them is that I think even physically, I feel a little bit prepared.
00:31:19 --> 00:31:25 I wish I wasn't in some ways, but still, I didn't even recognize it until Alex
00:31:25 --> 00:31:29 Pretty's murder on Saturday. I was with a group.
00:31:29 --> 00:31:33 They were talking about how their nervous systems were responding and the hypervigilance
00:31:33 --> 00:31:37 and how they were feeling tense in their bodies. And I realized,
00:31:38 --> 00:31:43 oh, I think I felt that way a lot of the time for 20 years without acknowledging it.
00:31:43 --> 00:31:47 I built up some coping mechanisms to thrive and flourish there. It was a good life.
00:31:48 --> 00:31:52 But I was also often on kind of on edge a little bit.
00:31:52 --> 00:31:57 And so recognizing that that's what's happening here, I think,
00:31:57 --> 00:32:01 has really increased my empathy for my Minnesotan community and for people who
00:32:01 --> 00:32:04 are not used to feeling like that or didn't expect to feel like that here.
00:32:04 --> 00:32:10 And again, this is a very, I think the white church needs to learn a lot from
00:32:10 --> 00:32:14 our non-white brothers and sisters about this because we've been inured to it
00:32:14 --> 00:32:21 or immune to it and have not had to pay attention to the cost of showing mercy
00:32:21 --> 00:32:24 and to what our bodies feel like when they're under threat.
00:32:25 --> 00:32:29 And so I think there's a real reckoning happening right now.
00:32:29 --> 00:32:36 And I hope that it's transformative and formative for my white Christian brothers and sisters here.
00:32:36 --> 00:32:40 That was kind of a tangent I think I took. But that has been,
00:32:41 --> 00:32:47 yeah, recognizing that I had some experiences of this feeling has increased
00:32:47 --> 00:32:49 my empathy for it happening here.
00:32:49 --> 00:32:54 At the same time, that experience of living abroad as an expat,
00:32:54 --> 00:32:59 as a foreigner, has complicated my thinking about.
00:33:01 --> 00:33:05 Things like visas and paperwork. I write in the article that there were times
00:33:05 --> 00:33:09 when we were in Djibouti where we were, I did not have legal paperwork.
00:33:09 --> 00:33:14 We were trying, you know, as many people here are doing the process and there's a process.
00:33:15 --> 00:33:20 And sometimes we just didn't have it finished yet. But I never ever felt afraid
00:33:20 --> 00:33:23 that the government would come after me with violence or aggression.
00:33:23 --> 00:33:26 I would maybe have to pay a fine if I tried to leave the airport and my visa
00:33:26 --> 00:33:27 had expired or something.
00:33:29 --> 00:33:34 But I was never afraid that I'd be come after with guns or masked men trying to kick me out.
00:33:34 --> 00:33:38 And so, again, also that comes from a lot of privilege of being a white American
00:33:38 --> 00:33:41 passport holder. That wasn't the case for everybody in the country.
00:33:42 --> 00:33:48 But it just, yeah, that sense of, I know what it's like to be a foreigner,
00:33:48 --> 00:33:53 and I don't know what it's like to be a foreigner for the reasons of refugees,
00:33:53 --> 00:33:56 like the Afghan friends that my article references,
00:33:57 --> 00:34:01 We did it for work by choice, but someone who is coming here as a refugee who's
00:34:01 --> 00:34:04 been vetted and has gone through all the right processes,
00:34:05 --> 00:34:13 there's a reason that they came from where they were, their home,
00:34:13 --> 00:34:17 and it's often a painful reason. and not always, but often.
00:34:18 --> 00:34:24 And so just recognizing that our immigrant friends have already experienced
00:34:24 --> 00:34:28 a lot of pain and loss and grief.
00:34:29 --> 00:34:35 And we told them they were welcome here and invited them to come.
00:34:35 --> 00:34:44 And so now piling this on top, it just, again, it increases my empathy and my grief for them. Yeah.
00:34:45 --> 00:34:49 Just recognizing what that's like when when we were in soma island in
00:34:49 --> 00:34:52 2003 there was a violent there's a
00:34:52 --> 00:34:55 couple of murders and so our organization and the local
00:34:55 --> 00:34:57 the university where my husband worked they said you have to go we can't keep
00:34:57 --> 00:35:00 you safe anymore and so we fled we had
00:35:00 --> 00:35:05 30 minutes to pack up whatever we could and leave the country and um i didn't
00:35:05 --> 00:35:10 go back for 15 no 11 years i didn't go back to that i didn't go back to our
00:35:10 --> 00:35:15 home for 15 years and that experience again of like i got I had a suitcase,
00:35:16 --> 00:35:18 I had my kids and my husband, and we left,
00:35:19 --> 00:35:22 was, it was painful and transformative.
00:35:22 --> 00:35:29 And yet, I had a home in America. I didn't lose everything, like so many of
00:35:29 --> 00:35:31 our immigrant friends, refugee friends have.
00:35:32 --> 00:35:37 And so, again, I just, I have that experience of empathizing with a little bit
00:35:37 --> 00:35:40 of that uprootedness and the fear of a flight that's caused,
00:35:40 --> 00:35:42 like you have to get out of here because of violence.
00:35:43 --> 00:35:48 And then to see now this stuff being piled on top of those experiences for people,
00:35:48 --> 00:35:54 it's just, it adds to the pain that they're experiencing and empathy that I
00:35:54 --> 00:35:56 feel for them. I'm rambling here.
00:35:58 --> 00:36:03 Yeah. Well, yeah. And I think you kind of talked earlier about...
00:36:05 --> 00:36:15 How I think a lot of white Americans are just kind of feeling something that's not normal for them.
00:36:15 --> 00:36:22 And it made me think a lot about having grown up in the Black church about that
00:36:22 --> 00:36:34 history of how basically my dad's generation and older dealt with a lot of the struggles,
00:36:34 --> 00:36:42 but how the church was a place literally of sanctuary that could tell them something
00:36:42 --> 00:36:45 a little bit different than what the world was telling them.
00:36:47 --> 00:36:54 And I think, to be honest, sometimes that what I'm seeing from a lot of people now,
00:36:55 --> 00:37:01 the wider community and from white Americans, is that they're now experiencing
00:37:01 --> 00:37:04 something that other communities have faced,
00:37:04 --> 00:37:11 which is that sense of the brutality sometimes of what the world can be like,
00:37:12 --> 00:37:23 and how, especially places like the church, can be a sense of shelter, but also can help people,
00:37:25 --> 00:37:30 to be engaged in mission in a way that they haven't seen that before.
00:37:32 --> 00:37:40 One of my prayers is that this will be transformative. because one of the things
00:37:40 --> 00:37:42 I think, again, the white church has to reckon with is, okay,
00:37:42 --> 00:37:45 right now, we're very active in loving our neighbors.
00:37:45 --> 00:37:50 Why weren't we loving them before? Did we know them before? Were we engaged
00:37:50 --> 00:37:54 before and participating and feeling this stuff and recognizing the brutality
00:37:54 --> 00:37:56 that our brothers and sisters had faced before?
00:37:56 --> 00:38:00 Okay, maybe not, but now, okay, you're in it.
00:38:00 --> 00:38:05 Will this actually transform you for the future when we're not in crisis?
00:38:06 --> 00:38:10 Will we still be engaged with our neighbors and participating together and potlucking
00:38:10 --> 00:38:14 together with our neighbors and empathizing with what they're experiencing,
00:38:14 --> 00:38:15 recognizing what they're experiencing.
00:38:16 --> 00:38:20 So that's one of my prayers right now is that this would be really long-term
00:38:20 --> 00:38:23 transformative for the white church here.
00:38:25 --> 00:38:29 Yeah, I mean, I think that was kind of the question I was going to ask is,
00:38:29 --> 00:38:37 how does the potluck kind of change the world? How does it change people afterwards?
00:38:39 --> 00:38:43 Because I would think that this kind of coming together doesn't just,
00:38:45 --> 00:38:51 We don't necessarily go back to, quote unquote, normal. There is going to be a new normal.
00:38:52 --> 00:38:56 So how does a potluck transform the world? Yeah, yeah.
00:38:57 --> 00:39:03 You know, again, metaphorically, there's the idea of I've incorporated Somali
00:39:03 --> 00:39:10 spices into some of my food or we'll have lasagna with sambusa or whatever it might be.
00:39:10 --> 00:39:14 And so there's an incorporation without being appropriation,
00:39:14 --> 00:39:18 but, you know, just a real delight in what this other person has brought and
00:39:18 --> 00:39:20 recognizing this as a gift from them.
00:39:21 --> 00:39:24 And so that's one way to kind of think about it.
00:39:25 --> 00:39:29 For my kids who were, you know, raised there and brought up there,
00:39:29 --> 00:39:32 that's something they're learning to navigate of what are some things that they
00:39:32 --> 00:39:38 can still participate in and love. and who are they with this mixed identity
00:39:38 --> 00:39:40 as a kind of a potluck person?
00:39:40 --> 00:39:43 And then again, to take that to the current context,
00:39:45 --> 00:39:53 I was very convicted yesterday when this ICE thing happened on our street because
00:39:53 --> 00:39:57 I have excuses, but they're just excuses.
00:39:57 --> 00:40:01 I've only been in the U.S. for two years. I've only been in this house for a year and a half.
00:40:01 --> 00:40:05 I'm still figuring out American culture. I could make these kind of excuses
00:40:05 --> 00:40:08 for how I've been floating above my neighborhood a little bit.
00:40:09 --> 00:40:11 And I've traveled back to Djibouti multiple times.
00:40:12 --> 00:40:17 Whatever. Those are, then I, yesterday, ICE shows up on our street. I go outside.
00:40:17 --> 00:40:20 Once they leave and my daughter's able to get out of our driveway again,
00:40:20 --> 00:40:24 I am engaging with the neighbors and the press that had arrived and the city council.
00:40:25 --> 00:40:29 And I didn't know all the neighbors' names that were there. I knew some of them,
00:40:29 --> 00:40:30 but I didn't know all of them.
00:40:30 --> 00:40:35 And so I felt even practically convicted of, I have not intentionally met enough
00:40:35 --> 00:40:39 of my neighbors on my own street that I could have in the last year and a half.
00:40:39 --> 00:40:45 And so for myself a real practical step of how to take the potluck forward I
00:40:45 --> 00:40:49 got phone numbers for everybody that was out on the street I noted which house
00:40:49 --> 00:40:53 they're in I noted which ones have kids at the corner bus stop which is actually
00:40:53 --> 00:40:55 right diagonal from my house where on the corner,
00:40:56 --> 00:40:59 and so I want to take that forward after
00:40:59 --> 00:41:03 through this period of intensity but also forward
00:41:03 --> 00:41:06 into being a neighborhood that knows each other and that
00:41:06 --> 00:41:09 not just like hello on a walk but I know your name
00:41:09 --> 00:41:12 and i'm getting to know you and so even um
00:41:12 --> 00:41:17 texted with one of the neighbors last night a little bit so that's a real practical
00:41:17 --> 00:41:22 thing that i think the potluck can bring forward in communal networks now we
00:41:22 --> 00:41:25 know each other because we've done stuff together we've been through something
00:41:25 --> 00:41:30 but also we just get your phone number and so we can engage and i really hope
00:41:30 --> 00:41:32 that that i pray that that continues.
00:41:35 --> 00:41:42 What advice would you give or what word, helpful word would you give to other
00:41:42 --> 00:41:47 communities around the country right now that they may not be dealing with the
00:41:47 --> 00:41:50 same thing that Twin Cities are dealing with,
00:41:51 --> 00:42:01 but there is need and there are issues and things of how do they kind of create
00:42:01 --> 00:42:04 a potluck atmosphere in their cities?
00:42:05 --> 00:42:09 Because I think part of the thing also that I've been thinking about a lot is
00:42:09 --> 00:42:13 how atomized we are as a society.
00:42:14 --> 00:42:20 I think sometimes the reason that we're in the mess we're in is because we're so atomized.
00:42:20 --> 00:42:26 And so, how do we have that spirit of potluck that we can bring to other parts
00:42:26 --> 00:42:32 of the country, especially where people are dealing with kind of isolation and loneliness?
00:42:34 --> 00:42:38 Yeah, I think just to go back to what I said,
00:42:38 --> 00:42:41 like really getting to know your neighbors actually and practically,
00:42:41 --> 00:42:47 it is kind of intimidating to walk up to a door of someone maybe you've been
00:42:47 --> 00:42:49 living next to for a while and never actually introduced yourself.
00:42:50 --> 00:42:55 And maybe they'll think it's weird. Maybe they'll think it's amazing. Either way, it's okay.
00:42:56 --> 00:43:03 Do it. And even one of my neighbors, there's a clear political divide.
00:43:04 --> 00:43:09 Because I just knew the year we moved in was election year and there was signs up in the yards.
00:43:09 --> 00:43:12 And so there were some fingers pointed even just yesterday.
00:43:13 --> 00:43:18 And so I think taking down those fingers and just, we don't agree politically,
00:43:19 --> 00:43:21 but we're neighbors and can I still get to know you?
00:43:21 --> 00:43:26 Can I still get your phone number and care about you when you're, you know, in need?
00:43:27 --> 00:43:32 And so that practical step of getting to the people who physically are around
00:43:32 --> 00:43:34 you, geographically close by,
00:43:35 --> 00:43:37 taking that courageous step to go knock on their door and say hello,
00:43:38 --> 00:43:41 even if it's weird and acknowledging, hey, maybe this is weird,
00:43:41 --> 00:43:42 but I just wanted to get to know you.
00:43:43 --> 00:43:50 Things like that, things like, you know, getting to know your city council or the community needs.
00:43:50 --> 00:43:55 My church does a really good job of knowing the local needs.
00:43:55 --> 00:44:01 So how many school age kids in our suburb are not getting the food they need
00:44:01 --> 00:44:04 for the money they need for lunch? Or how many of them are not getting food?
00:44:04 --> 00:44:07 We're going to meet that need. How many people in the middle of the winter in
00:44:07 --> 00:44:09 Minnesota don't have socks and underwear?
00:44:09 --> 00:44:13 So we did an underwear drive at my church this winter and it was amazing how people came out.
00:44:14 --> 00:44:17 And so So there are local needs that you can already be engaging with.
00:44:18 --> 00:44:24 And there are communities and whether it's a, you know, a food shelf or a school
00:44:24 --> 00:44:26 that are doing stuff already or trying to.
00:44:27 --> 00:44:30 And so can you find out where are those little pockets, you know,
00:44:31 --> 00:44:32 in your own local community?
00:44:32 --> 00:44:36 I really value focusing locally, partly because Djibouti was so small.
00:44:36 --> 00:44:41 And so most of our community was within a three-mile, five-kilometer radius.
00:44:42 --> 00:44:45 And so like again coming back to the united states and trying to be
00:44:45 --> 00:44:48 local um where are
00:44:48 --> 00:44:51 the needs so schools are a great place to connect churches are a great place
00:44:51 --> 00:44:55 to connect or a mosque or a temple see what they're doing see how you can participate
00:44:55 --> 00:44:59 well you know could be financially but it could also be just showing up could
00:44:59 --> 00:45:02 be dropping off a delivery um and then getting some of your neighbors i think
00:45:02 --> 00:45:07 those are all very practical steps build a whatsapp group or a signal group with your,
00:45:08 --> 00:45:10 community and just and know who's around.
00:45:13 --> 00:45:18 If people want to know more about you or to read some of your articles,
00:45:18 --> 00:45:22 I know you are a prolific writer. Where should they go?
00:45:23 --> 00:45:29 I have a sub-step, which is with my name, Rachel Pye Jones. Pye is within H, P-I-E-H.
00:45:29 --> 00:45:33 I also have a website, rachelpyejones.com. It's mostly about my ghostwriting
00:45:33 --> 00:45:37 business, but you can find links to all my books and articles on the website.
00:45:38 --> 00:45:43 Okay. Well, Rachel Pye Jones, thank you so much. this is helpful.
00:45:44 --> 00:45:48 And I hope that that people are hearing it both here in Minnesota,
00:45:48 --> 00:45:53 but also across the country and around the world will kind of take all this to heart.
00:45:53 --> 00:45:57 Because I think, as the article states, we not only just Minneapolis,
00:45:58 --> 00:46:00 but I think the world needs more potlucks right now.
00:46:00 --> 00:46:03 Yeah, thank you so much, David. All right.
00:46:34 --> 00:46:37 So, as usual, I'm interested in knowing what your thoughts are about the episode.
00:46:38 --> 00:46:43 I'd also like to know, especially if you're someone who listens to this podcast
00:46:43 --> 00:46:50 and lives in Minnesota, whether it's the Twin Cities or in Rochester,
00:46:51 --> 00:46:56 southern part of Minnesota, Albert Lee or Duluth or Brainerd.
00:46:56 --> 00:47:03 And I'd like to know, have you been affected by the presence of ICE?
00:47:03 --> 00:47:07 And what has that meant to you? How are you dealing with it?
00:47:08 --> 00:47:14 Are you having lots of potlucks? If so, please drop me a line.
00:47:14 --> 00:47:21 You can send it to the email of churchandmain, which is all one word, at substack.com.
00:47:22 --> 00:47:25 I'd just like to hear from you and see how you're doing.
00:47:27 --> 00:47:31 Also, if you want to learn more about the podcast, if you want to listen to
00:47:31 --> 00:47:36 past episodes or donate, check us out at churchinmaine.org.
00:47:36 --> 00:47:43 And you can also visit churchinmaine.substack.com to read related articles.
00:47:44 --> 00:47:47 You can subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcast app.
00:47:48 --> 00:47:51 And as always, please consider leaving a rating or a review.
00:47:52 --> 00:47:54 That helps others find the podcast.
00:47:55 --> 00:47:59 There is another link if you want to donate if you don't want to go to the website
00:47:59 --> 00:48:07 itself there is a link in the show notes also there is a link there if you would like to receive the,
00:48:09 --> 00:48:12 episode in your inbox when it goes live,
00:48:13 --> 00:48:17 that is it for this episode of Church in Maine I'm Dennis Sanders your host
00:48:17 --> 00:48:22 again thank you so much for listening it does mean a lot take care everyone,
00:48:22 --> 00:48:25 Godspeed and I will see you very soon.