In this episode, I dive into the tricky connection between faith and politics, especially with Donald Trump making a comeback as president. I talk about the often awkward but necessary act of praying for leaders we might not agree with, stressing that it can be a significant spiritual duty. Drawing from my essay, “Why We Should Pray for President Trump, Even If We Don't Like Him,” I point out how important it is to approach our prayers with humility and grace.
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[0:28] Hello, and welcome to Church in Maine, a podcast for people interested in the intersection of faith, politics, and culture. I'm Dennis Sanders, your host.
[0:39] So, it is, this is the evening of January 24th. So, it has now been four days since Donald Trump was sworn in. And as I said, actually, on the previous podcast, there's been a flurry of activities in the office, um, in his few days of office. Um, and it's probably just going to be getting used to the chaos again of the, that we dealt with back in 2017. It's back and we're just going to have to deal with it for the next few years. Um, this podcast is really kind of talking about one way that we can deal with this.
[1:26] You know you're already seeing kind of a lot of talk about at least for me on social media about resistance and and you know there's a lot of reaction to a lot of what he's already done, some of the executive orders especially the pardoning of the people involved in January 6th that was pretty indiscriminate.
[1:50] I know that there have been some initial talk that was just going to be, at least from people like Vice President Vance, that it was going to be nonviolent offenders, but that didn't turn out to be the case. There's been some concern about the deportations and how will that happen? Will that be mass deportations? Will it be just criminals? If it's criminals, that's something that I can personally understand. If you're starting to go into schools or something and nab a mother or wrongly deport someone who may already be here legally, that's going to be a problem. Um, there was also some disturbing things such as removing the, uh, not, not even security clearance, the actual security, um, for people, um, such as John Bolton, um, and Mike Pompeo, uh, both who are former Trump administration, um, people, both, uh, Pompeo was his secretary state. John Bolton was a national security advisor. You can agree or disagree with these people, but these are people who basically have a.
[3:14] Iran, the nation of Iran, has it out for them. Removing government security from them means, of course, that they have to pay for that security. It also puts them at risk from a nation that has wanted to have them killed. So there's just kind of a lot of disturbing things going on. And the question that I keep always kind of coming up with is, how do we deal with the next few years? especially if you are someone who is critical of President Trump. And if you have listened to this podcast over the last four years, you know that I am critical of President Trump. I'm not as rabid as some people are, but I have been very critical. I do not think that he has the skills to lead. That does not mean that I thought that the Democrats did a wonderful job. In fact, I think they failed. President Biden, I think, did a terrible job in some ways as a president, and he failed in trying to not get Trump back in the White House. But that's for another episode.
[4:32] What I wanted to talk about today is something that might seem to some people counterproductive. It might seem maybe even blasphemous.
[4:46] This is based off of an essay that I wrote with the title, as you can already see, Why We Should Pray for President Trump. And the subtitle is, Even If We Don't Like Him. And so I'm going to kind of talk today in this solo podcast about that, basing it off of this essay. And I hope that you will listen, and well, let me know what you think. So as I said, I am a pastor that has criticized Trump.
[5:21] I've pretty much criticized him since he came down that golden escalator way back in 2015.
[5:32] I think that this is a personal question about praying for someone. Um, do you pray for someone that governs in ways that you think are offensive, that go against your belief and thoughts?
[5:56] Would you be willing to pray for someone like Trump? And would you, especially if you're a pastor, pray for him during worship by name?
[6:08] All of this is hard. It's hard to pray for someone that you totally disagree with. But I think that you should. I think that you do need to pray for President Trump, even if it is hard to do. And believe me, it's hard to do. So, yeah, you know, in the immediate aftermath of Trump's first win in 2016, the then-bishop of Chicago in the Episcopal Church, Jeff Lee, he wrote a letter to his diocese basically suggesting that they pray for the newly elected president. Now, that did not sit well with people, in fact, and especially one person who responded by telling the bishop that he was to stop admiring Trump. Now, that was not the intent of the bishop's letter. He was not interested in trying to admire Trump. He had, did not admire Trump, but it gave him a sign to see how intense some people's responses to Trump are.
[7:16] And about a year after, a few months after that article in 2017, the Episcopal News Service did this, I wrote this article about how some people responded to dealing with Trump. Sometimes they refrained of mentioning the president's name at all during worship because of the trauma that might bring up, especially because people considered him racist or misogynistic.
[7:48] But then, at the time, they also got a quote from the presiding bishop at that time, Michael Curry. And he said that praying for Trump was a challenge to the faithfulness to the gospel. And to quote what he said in the article is, this is when religion gets real.
[8:11] Now, over the years, it has been incredibly easy for me to see Donald Trump and the many ways that a lot of his critics do as a nativist, as a racist, as someone that's a threat to democracy. But I think that there was one way I didn't see him. I didn't get to see him in the way that God might see him as one of God's children. Now, I think that Donald Trump is a craptacular child of God, but I also think that he is one of God's children regardless. And he is one of God's children that needs my prayer. Now, in the run-up to the election last November, I really actually tried to pray for both candidates and their running mates by name. And when it came to Trump, it was never easy to name him, but I still did it. Now, I haven't really done it at all since shortly after the election, maybe.
[9:24] But I feel like I need to get back into the habit again. Like, I want to pray that President Trump will be a leader that will lead with justice and humility towards the flourishing of society. Now, when I'm saying that, when I'm actually praying for that, please understand I am not smoking anything. I have not become a Trump supporter. I have not gone MAGA. I know who Donald Trump is. And I can already tell you, and as many of you already see, that the second Trump term is pretty much going to be as shambolic as the first. But I think that if I want to see change in this society, maybe there are times that I need to get down on my knees.
[10:15] Music.
[10:24] This time around. Not that it wasn't important the first time, but I think maybe we need to try this tactic or try another way this time around.
[10:36] For the last few years, a lot of Christians who were opposed to Trump tended to focus on politics and the law as a way of countering and possibly even punishing the former and now current president. For a lot of reasons, that approach failed. It didn't work.
[11:01] Music.
[11:01] The belief of resistance never really made that much of a difference. But I think that a lot of Christians still think that this is the correct approach. And while that tactic might make people feel good I also think that it has a lot of downsides it was a narrative that was too self-congratulatory and too certain, and I don't think that the tactic necessarily of resistance has to be retired but I don't think that should be the only tool, in our quiver.
[11:46] But i think that this also exposes a deeper problem because i think this is this kind of where i i get into the whole as i sometimes make it as my in this podcast talking a lot about andrew root and his belief in the imminent frame which he borrows from charles taylor the canadian philosopher and how we don't believe really in a transcendent god so we think that everything is on us. And I think that that's what's happening here. We think that this whole politics thing, this whole governing thing is all on us. What we do is end up reducing God to a cheerleader for our side of the political argument.
[12:27] But that's not who God is. God is a living, breathing God. And when we read Scripture, what we notice is that we are introduced to a God that actually affects change in our world. You can read the Hebrew Scripture or the Old Testament, and God is calling, actually, leaders to rule Israel. That's basically the whole book of judges. And God also called the kings. God called Saul to be king, and God called David to be king. God is not on the sidelines. God is actually in the thick of it.
[13:09] So, I believe that we should pray, Because maybe praying, praying that God will move, that God, that God will work.
[13:23] Music.
[13:32] Now, there is one caveat to this. I think that when we pray, and when we pray that President Trump governs with justice, we need to be careful that we're not asking God that Trump will follow what we want, what is our political agenda, but actually for what God wants. Because if we only do that kind of thing where we want God and think that we know what is God's agenda, then we're putting ourself in the place of God. And I do think that God, there are certain things that we may think God would not want, and I think that that makes sense, or God would want. But we need to be careful that we don't make our agenda God's agenda. But we pray that the president, and in this case, whoever that would be, will follow God's agenda. Now, there is another reason that I want to say that we should be praying for President Trump. And it's a simple message. It's an old-fashioned message. And that is simply grace.
[14:54] As Christians, we understand that God has shown grace to us. It's something that is undeserved. We don't deserve it. You know, my favorite verse in the Bible is from Romans 5.8, but God proves his love for us and that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
[15:12] Trump is not deserving of grace, but the fact is neither am I.
[15:18] Music.
[15:40] That we show grace and that we understand grace and understand that Donald Trump is as much a child of God that needs prayer and needs guidance than any of us.
[15:52] Music.
[15:57] And it also means that he becomes less of a monster, less of a, well, maybe not less of an enemy, but at least more of a human. Now, there are a lot of things that are going on. There will be a lot of things going on over the next few years. But that's why prayer is ever so more important. And the former presiding bishop is correct. It's time for religion to get real. I don't know if prayers or praying for President Trump is going to stop some of his policies. In some ways, I don't know if that's the point.
[16:48] What I do know is that praying for Donald Trump is.
[16:55] Music.
[17:18] So that's my take on why i think people should pray for donald trump even if they don't like him i'm kind of curious what you all have to think i know that you have opinions, if you are willing to share something uh civilly um drop me an email So.
[17:37] Music.
[17:43] Send it to churchandmain at substack.com. I will put the email address in the show notes. And let me know what you think. Does it make sense to pray for President Trump? And does it make sense to do it publicly, by name, especially if you're a pastor? I'd like to know. So if you want to learn more about the podcast, listen to past episodes, or donate, check us out at churchandmain.org. You can also visit churchandmain.substack.com to read related articles like the one that I just kind of riffed on that does appear on my sub stack. I hope that you will subscribe to the podcast on your favorite podcast app and leave a review on those podcast apps that allow for reviews, because when you do that, that helps others find this podcast. So that is it for this solo episode of Church in Maine. I'm Dennis Sanders, your host. Thank you so much for listening. Take care, everyone. Godspeed, and see you very soon.
[18:53] Music.
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